[MattFogParticipant]

I’ve created a further 8 BWF files of about 5-6 sec duration each, of the four different bit/sample combinations from my Soundscape DAW. Mixer consisted of a single stereo input which was muted – should be no audio. On this particular occasion all the 48k files were fine on replay via QU drive and all the 44k files went splat – see how you go.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pjw6qe11kr11ske/AABQ4Gim5pS_Kj-wwUN88WPIa?dl=0

I’ve sent a couple of those files to your email as you requested, Alan.

[MattFogParticipant]

Thanks [XAPBob] – Live band situation. Currently running 3 stereo channels of audio from a Windows 7 laptop running Cubase into 6 mono channels (as 3 stereo) of a QU-24 via a USB port of the laptop into the USB port of the QU (that’s my keyboard setup). Would like to expand that to include a 2nd Windows laptop or Windows PC box for 2 more stereo channels from a Protools DAW (another musicans setup). I thought if both DAWS ran with the QU driver they may be able to share the resource of the QU together. Currently 2nd musican outputs from his Protools DAW via a Focusrite box into 4 analog pre-amps on the QU. Would like to do away with this digital/analog/digital step.
It may be possible to go from the 2nd computer (out of Protools) into my laptop (into and then out of Cubase) and then I’d be sending all ten channels of audio to the QU. Maybe between the two computers via USB? Maybe via a network cable (or wireless?) One thought – I have as much buffer as I can put up with on my Cubase DAW, would the 2nd musican (also using a MIDI controler keyboard) be copping two lots of latency if his signal was somehow routed from his Protools DAW through my Cubase DAW (that’s if it’s achievable at all anyway).

[MattFogParticipant]

Andreas, as you mention playback support, I note that my QU-drive doesn’t support basic alpha numeric file ordering. It seems to conform to “date created” order instead. Adding a “01” numeric to the front of a WAV file name doesn’t cause it to rearrange to numeric order and Alphabetical order is ignored too. When the band has decided on the set list, I have to go re-export the WAV files from the DAW in the order that we want to play them on the night in order to be able to go next, next, next….. again, is that normal function?

[MattFogParticipant]

[XAP]Bob, I’ve got a few files, some of which cause splats here –

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tbhar2r0j1dno6i/AADhCkRnd0uJsE18wnzqzR06a?dl=0

If you could put them on a “repeat all” loop and note which files splat at the end, that would be of interest.

[MattFogParticipant]

Andreas, what I seem to have now is a DAW that produces incompatible files and a DAW that doesn’t. That’s what it looks like today. Each time I create test files, I make up the four possible combinations – 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 and 48/24. As I read in the manual, those four combinations should work. For reasons that I don’t understand the BWF files that I create from my Soundscape DAW are incompatible with QU-drive. When I loop-play the four files, splats occur in the same place each time. When I try the same four files copied onto different thumb-drives I get splats in different places from drive to drive, but always in the same place on each drive as it loops. The same four types of file (in WAV or BWF format), when created in Cubase and played back on the same thumb drives (as of today) are playing back without fault – none whatsoever. That has to be of interest to us particularly if we assume that there’s nothing wrong with my Soundscape DAW. BTW these same files, play back fine in other software players without hiccup or splats. Don’t forget that another QU-24 in the shop I bought from replicated the same fault when I took my mixer in for comparative testing and splats occurred on my unit and there’s with WAV files the guys in the shop supplied as well.

My solutions so far include – continue to create play-back WAV files with a three minute silent tail, so that I never (at a gig) get to the end of a file (I’d always be on to the next file in less than three minutes), or create files from my Cubase DAW, which currently seem to playback without fault. They’re both not my first preference, but I can work with that if required. Trouble is, at this stage, we haven’t uncovered anything that might point conclusively to the cause. If others in the future find they are experiencing this fault, no one will be able to help them unless we identify the cause.

[MattFogParticipant]

Dick, I’m assuming that A&H people keep an eye on this forum and so I was expecting someone to pop up with the cause and solution for me fairly quickly when I started this thread. I had been surprised that I couldn’t find any reference to the issue when I searched the forum for it. It’s still surprising to me – maybe very few people have a use for the USB replay facility? It’s very useful to me and I’m going to keep on using it regardless, but I’d really prefer it to work without “fault”. I’m interested to know what experiences others have had. I’ll just see where we end up with this thread and then contact support directly if required.

[MattFogParticipant]

Hmmm….. I did mention that I had Soundscape and Cubase DAWs, but it may be that I didn’t do enough testing with the Cubase DAW before posting here. I just now tried a number of mix-down exports from Cubase from a 24/48 project to the four sample rate/bit depth combinations with and without audio and I couldn’t get the resulting files to fault on QU-drive replay using three different model thumb drives! Cubase allows a few choices for WAV file export including adding or excluding the Broadcast Wave Chunk, inserting or not the iXML chunk and also or not to use the Wave extensible format. I tried WAV with and without the BWF chunk and it made no difference to replay – as I say I couldn’t get it to fault at this stage. Soundscape only allows BWF file export, so I can’t tweak anything there (other than bit/sample) The solution may be looming for me with the use of Cubase, but it’s a bit annoying with a “lifetime” of work in the Soundscape DAW. I shall continue to test. This doesn’t change the fact that there’s something going on with compatibility out there as others have reported that needs to be understood and made known widely – maybe Andreas will uncover it in the files I have posted?

[MattFogParticipant]

Thanks for those comments Dick, whilst I agree entirely with the point you make, I’m not convinced it applies to this situation. To clarify – I’m experiencing a “fault like” condition with the mixer in terms of it’s ability to replay WAV files in the manner that the manufacturer says it should. As a result I’m looking for a) a statement of known fault condition (if I’m not alone with this problem) b) a solution (tell me which thumb drive to use and which DAW and which settings to use and I’ll do that) and c) an explanation of why the “fault” occurs (I may or may not be able to understand the explanation, but start by giving me the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming it’s beyond me to understand).
So rather than me asking A&H to make my third party software work with their mixer, I’m asking them to tell me how to create a WAV file that will replay successfully. Which DAW would they like me to use, which USB stick should I use. There’s a list of tried and tested USB sticks that should work with QU drive, but what about a list of software that will create a successfully repayable WAV file?
I think that makes this different to the point you have made. I’m trying to get the mixer to do something that the user manual says it should do. If there are conditions required to how the mixer can do those things, it should be stated in the manual, or we should be subsequently informed. A statement, a solution or an explanation – one of those things is required IMHO.

[MattFogParticipant]

Andreas, I had previously (on another occasion) created the 4 files (16/24 + 44.1/48 WAV file combinations) through a mixer that was totally muted, in and out – I assume that’s what you’re referring to as “pure silence”? I found it has no bearing on the outcome whether there is audible sound on the file or not. I believe it’s independent of that. Not sure why I included audio in the files this time? Maybe just so I knew I was listening to the audible output of the QU-drive during replay…..
If you get a chance I would be very interested in knowing how you get on playing all eight files in a “repeat all” loop, and then if you get the same result (exactly) using different thumb drives. I did, which as I’ve said before adds an interesting degree of complexity to understanding the likely cause of this “problem”.

[MattFogParticipant]

Andreas: Thanks for your reply. If there is a requirement to provide files for playback on a QU of 512 Byte multiples, shouldn’t that be mentioned in the user manual? I’ve had a good look through my SSL Soundscape DAW and my Cubase Elements 9 DAW and I can find no option in either to force the DAW to create mix-down files of 512 Byte multiple size. Can you recomend a DAW to me that would enable me to make QU compliant files? FYI files from Soundscape are BWF, but Cubase can be WAV or BWF. I’ve used the Soundscape DAW in one incarnation or another since the early 1990s and never heard any mention of additional data being added to their BWF mix-down files. I’ve produced a few audio recordings on this system that have ended up (after mastering) as commercial CD’s and again have never had to concern myself with files that did or didn’t conform to size multiples of 512 Bytes.
The files I used in my latest test from my Soundscape DAW are temporally located here –

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tbhar2r0j1dno6i/AADhCkRnd0uJsE18wnzqzR06a?dl=0

Four of them are created in full seconds and include the letter “y” in the name the other four are not in full second duration (not that that seems to make any difference as it turns out). I’d be very interested to know how you get on with them. Any chance you could provide me with a few files that DON’T go splat at the end? It might help me confirm if I have a fault with my QU.

[MattFogParticipant]

robbocurry: thanks for the suggestions. I don’t use iTunes and would prefer not to, so I’ll keep that option on hold unless all else fails. It would seem a shame to have to add the extra step of “convert to WAV” when I am the creator of the files and I can make them in my DAWs to whatever specification is required (other than in chunks of 512 bytes, or so it would seem). I’m not using any kind of ripped files – in other words, I’m not using content that others have created.
I too use “play single” as I need to fire each item manually, however it doesn’t seem to change the outcome of the “splat” issue whatever play option I choose.
I have tried a selection of different drives which DID produce different “splat” outcomes – I think that’s a very interesting twist in the plot.

[MattFogParticipant]

I’ve tried a little more testing to see if the suggestion made by Huxby might work for me. I made the following stereo broadcast WAV files in my Soundscape DAW. They were snapped to full seconds in length. My DAW confirmed the duration to be in full seconds. (I was unable to set my DAW to 75 frames per second, so I hope that files of full second length would suffice.)

16/44.1
16/48
24/44.1
24/48

I then made up the same configuration of files but NOT in full seconds, (I turned the snap off and made sure I was not creating files of full second length. I numbered the set of eight files 1 to 8.

I then formatted three different types of USB drives in my QU-24 and copied the eight files into the play folder of each one. I set my QU to “repeat all”, and wrote 1 to 8 on a bit of paper and put a tick or a cross after each file had played, depending on whether or not it had caused a “splat”. I went around the cycle of eight on each drive about 4 or 5 times.

The results were completely consistent each cycle – ticks and crosses going in the same spot each time around – SO IT’S NOT RANDOM. Each drive however had it’s on unique response to the cycle of eight files. So it IS drive dependent. There was not one single file which passed the test on all three drives!

One drive liked three files, another drive liked two, and the third liked only one of the eight – a very poor result indeed and it would appear that files of full second duration are not the answer.

So at this stage I am still without a solution and as the “fault” was replicated by another QU-24 at the dealers shop when I dragged my unit in for comparative testing some months ago and others have indicated the same experiences here, I can scarcely believe that this is not a “known fault” and documented as such, somewhere. My dealer was mystified, the sales rep didn’t have an answer, the regional manager was informed (I believe) and I’m posting here, but still no solution (or at least an explanation) from A&H, which I feel the QU users are entitled to.

Matthew

[MattFogParticipant]

Airickess – Page 53 of the latest QU mixer reference manual states that WAV files of 44.1 or 48kHz, 16 or 24-bit, can be used for replay. I have been getting splats on files at 48kHz 24-bit in any case, so in my own experience that’s not the cause or the solution.

[MattFogParticipant]

Huxby – Thanks for the suggestions. I changed my DAWs view to “seconds” and tried a exporting a few mixdowns (48k/24bit) with a range snapped to full seconds (I can work with full seconds for my playback files and I assume it fits with your guidelines). So far no splats – I’ll keep trying – it’s looking good 🙂 I’ll try some other bit depth/sample rate combinations.
Andreas – I tried recording some stereo files using QU-drive and they played back fine on my QU-24. Unfortunately this doesn’t help me as I have to play back files I’ve created in a DAW.

[MattFogParticipant]

Thanks AlanG, the files I have been testing have all been created somewhere other than by the QU-24. Mostly in a DAW (Soundscape and Cubase). We have tried downloaded files and files extracted from CD’s too. I really only need the QU-24 to play back the files – we’re using it for performance, so it’s a feature I’d really like to have working properly. At this stage, I’m just adding 3 minutes of silence to the end of each file I create so that it never gets to the end of the file (and goes “splat” through the PA). The recording side of the QU-24 is fine, both to QU-Drive and USB streaming – no problems at all.

Matthew

[Author]

Posts