[Dr. JParticipant]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I worked with the routing a bit and I did get smaart to demonstrate a transfer function BUT I don’t feel comfortable with how it turned out. I couldn’t really get my signal levels in Smaart up where they needed to be without blasting pink noise thru my system. With an external interface – it is super easy to get great levels at really low volume on the PA. So…. I have to figure out how to get my signal levels up even though my channel strip gains are cranked on the QU.

At this point – the external interface is pretty rock solid so I may have to continue to carry it around. However, I like the idea that the QU can be my mixing board AND act as my Smaart interface at the same time. Splitting the Main out signal and routing it back into the board correctly is my hangup.

[Dr. JParticipant]

In this case with the mixer as the interface…. I think I hear you saying to route the main out split back into an input channel. Is this correct?
Won’t this create an undesired loop?

In this case – I was planning on using the pink noise generator in the console too.

My overall goal here is to get away with using an external interface if possible.

[Dr. JParticipant]

Awesome Cornelius! Thanks a lot!

[Dr. JParticipant]

Cornelius78 – thanks for the great explanation. You are a huge help here on the forum. Awhile back – you helped me with some effects routing on the Qu32.

We routed my delay return to the reverb input via “assignments”. In light of your response above – was it necessary to do it that way (the way I had you show me previously) OR could I have done it the way you explained above by adding in the return using the fader?

Thanks!

[Dr. JParticipant]

No problem kel.. sorry for the delay. I am out doing a PA install at the moment so it is a bit hard to get on here during the day.

Once you get everything working… Save as a template in studio one (for future playback recordings) and also save a scene in the Qu as “STUDIO” or something along those lines – that way it will save all the USB engaged channels… Time saver here..

[Dr. JParticipant]

Hi kel – there is a USB button at the top left of the mixer in a green outlined box that says “Preamp”. Just above your preamp gain knob.

That button has to be lit in order to play recorded music back thru the Qu mixer. You will have to engage it for every channel you want to play back… Hit select first to highlight the channel – then push the USB button to engage that channel for playback.

When you do this – your preamp knob in the window will turn “Blue” indicating you are in USB mode.

Hope this helps. Make sure in Studio One that you have selected QU for the playback instead of listening as “Windows Audio Device” for example.

[Dr. JParticipant]

Nicola – can you tell us some of the finer details of the QU mixers that is not in the manual. For example – how much mix bus summing room do we have?

If I use pink noise into a channel (PFL’d) with the fader at Unity & apply gain until it reads meter 0dBu – once I un-PFL the channel and look at my main meter it is -3dBu down. Of course my master fader is at unity but the meter reads -3dBu down. So there is some sort of built in pad/protection there?

I would like to know some of the finer details if you know and don’t mind sharing with us.

Thanks!

[Dr. JParticipant]

J3 – I use the DBX 260 as my primary system controller. It acts as the crossover for my speakers and also has the tool set I need to set the system up correctly.

I use Post Parametric EQ’s on the output side of the Driverack for Direct Field Speaker Correction. These settings are also called “Tunings” which correct any flaws that the speaker may present. ALL speakers have flaws so some DSP may be in order to help smooth out the response.
Proper crossover settings and time alignment settings will also help to maintain the frequency response of the system.
And finally, limiters on the Driverack for a little system protection. Nothing beats a good gain structure though.

The Qu mixer and the Driverack 260 have a perfect marriage in Input and Output (+22dBu) so there isn’t anything to do to set the gain structure there…. Just use good board gain structure and the Driverack will follow..

The Tunings for my speakers allow me to keep my board “Neutral” for the most part. This means I use my Main Out Parametric to deal with room issues… Not the Driverack. I haven’t touched my Driverack Tunings in years and do not plan too unless I add a new piece of gear into the mix.

Once the Main Out Eq is used to handle room issues – I begin to mix using the channel strip EQ’s wherever needed. I do not use any of the graphic EQ’s onboard the Driverack or the Qu. I just don’t need them.

Hope this helps answer your question..

[Dr. JParticipant]

Have you made any progress with this Darkmutton?

I hooked the Qu up to my computer and opened Smaart. If you open the Measurement Configuration window you will see Input settings.

On Device: click the down arrow to open up a list of available devices… I selected ASIO: Qu ASIO Driver…

This gave me access to all the inputs on the QU. On my board I selected 31 for my first input and 32 for my second input.

At this point – it is no issue to use this as a single channel RTA. The problem I have with the second channel is the fact that on a separate interface – input 2 would receive the split from the MAIN OUT of the console.

That means you would have to go OUT of the Qu and go right back into an Input on the console… I think this would be problematic. I am not good enough with routing in specific situations to do this kind of thing… I just use gear the way it is intended or I don’t do it….

So unless someone else comes along with advanced routing skills in strange situations- I am back to where I was several years ago…

Like I said before – I use Smaart on the Cue Bus and love it… But of course my system was setup with Smaart using manufacturer settings… Capturing the system in the free field and then taking it into the venue to see what the room did to the system and using Smaart to assist me in getting the frequency response close to the outdoor free field trace….

After that – Smaart gets moved to my Cue Bus.

I am interested to know if someone can route from the main out of the console back through the board without damaging something…

[Dr. JParticipant]

Darkmutton – I posed this question to both Rational Acoustics and Presonus about 7 years ago and they didn’t know how to effectively do it… Some say they figured it out but when pressed for the information – seem to fall by the way side.

As you may know – the Main Out on the console has to be split where one side continues on through the chain like normal and the other split becomes the Reference signal into the interface.

So… Somehow through the software ( Smaart and Qu-software) if you can tap into the Main line it maybe possible.

I use a separate interface and mostly use Smaart on the CUE Buss… Much like the way the Spectrogragh is routed now… Spectrogragh follows PAFL – which is brilliant! It helps me to quickly see who is cluttering the spectrum or who is howling or feeding back… Except the actual real Spectrogragh in Smaart is way easier to read than the one on the Qu due to screen size and resolution.

I will try and work on this myself now that you have brought it up… On my Presonus console I didn’t want to go out of the board and go back in with some funky routing…

It would be cool to work this out. I will give it another shot.

[Dr. JParticipant]

It should not take that long… No more than 3-5 minutes… I have update two QU-32’s this past week.

I know the alert message says to NOT power the system down while upgrading but if yours don’t finish up soon… You may not have a choice…

Let’s see if someone else comes along here with better advice..

[Dr. JParticipant]

Anyone have a preference as to the routing of effects? Especially Delay?

I have found most of the effects on the QU sound ok simply assigned to the mains or even subgroups…

The delay routed to the Main is just too dry…. Cannot get it to smooth out… Very annoying repeats and even annoying with the feedback set to zero. So I have been routing the delay output to the reverb input.

To my ears – it sounds so much smoother…

How is your effects routing?

[Dr. JParticipant]

I got into mixing because every gig I played (guitar player here) people would say I sure wish I could hear your guitar or why does it sound so harsh…..etc…. I eventually got fed up and purchased my own system and dedicated years of learning how to run it correctly.

I had a few wise guys hook up a graphic EQ on the Main Out and for hours have their head buried in the thing NOT paying attention to the band.

My thoughts were “Was is this piece of gear that deserves so much attention? Why does this sound system DEPEND on the EQ… I very quickly decided I hated graphic EQ’ and they cannot possible be the answer to good sound…. Man was my hunch correct…

My point here is that your system has many components and there could be multiple things going on…. Does every piece of gear do what it is supposed to do? Have you verified that the Polarity on every cable, every speaker is correct? A positive impulse on a Positive terminal causes the speaker to move forward?

When your drummer hits his kick – does the sub woofer actually move forward? Not talking about cardioid or multiple speakers systems here where inverted polarity is the exception….

Is your gain structure correct? So when your mixer approaches the clip point every other piece of gear in the chain approaches the clip point?

Do you know what the frequency response of your system? If you don’t know what the frequency response of your system is – how are you going to know what to do with it?

Are the tops and subs time aligned? Is the crossover set correctly?

When you walk up to your mixer you are going to want music to be coming through the PA to sound decent and intelligence with NO EQ on the music channel engaged. If it doesn’t sound good that way – then you will have to go to your MAIN EQ and make some changes…

If the system is set up correctly – all you have to account for when the system is taken into a room is what the room did to the system… Go to the Main EQ and make the changes. Once that is done – you can then begin to mix on the channels.

I hope this makes sense…. You cannot mix your way out of a poorly set up sound system.

Dave Rat has a great video on how to do this… I recommend you watch and give this a try… I do it all the time with great success… However, I first learned to set up systems correctly through Rational Acoustics….. SMAART program. That way when I did mix – I had a great canvas to work with.

[Dr. JParticipant]

@airickess – the mix strategy I am using is something that Dave Rat always talks about. Dave mixes for the Chilli Peppers and has a wealth of videos out there on his YouTube channel…

You may already know this…

I am pretty sure he has compression on the subgroups and the effects are also routed to the subgroups.

Check it out: https://youtu.be/MMMmR1u0CFk

[Dr. JParticipant]

Nearly all the rooms I mix in are concrete or metal. So I high pass and low pass most of the effects. I am currently using the same reverb on vocals and drums. The snare has its own verb.

I may consider swapping out the doubler for a dedicated vocal verb or drum (toms) verb.

[Author]

Posts