[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

@jephsound
Could you expand on what you do with the Groups and FX please? That sounds interesting.

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

@KeithJ A&H
Thank you very much– as always Keith, yes you are right: I had the Preamp set to Block and having it in Allow did what I was looking for.

I must say that this is an area of the User Guide that is perhaps not quite as clear as other sections.
But I just found your session on Youtube about this topic so I will watch that this eve 🙂
Sharing link here for others: https://www.youtube.com/live/aZXhh8WTxP0?si=rUrykQR-oH-ixWwj

Thanks Keith
It’s a great mixer the SQ btw 🙂

Andy

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

Wow – BH.. thank you.. that’s very cool. I will try to get my head round that. The more I learn about Live Sound the more I realise how much I don’t yet know 🙂
Thank you

I might need to bite the bullet on paid Qlab and learn it properly- the “rent to own” feature seems a very cool model– (though QLab is not very cheap for a semi-pro on a budget..)
Thanks BH- much appreciated.

Andy

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

For this to work you need to be able to view these sends and returns in the context of the monitors so you would create a layer with these sends and fx returns for the monitors that are not assigned to FOH (LR).
I guess if the show is small you can duplicate all your channels this way to a seperate “monitor eng” layer or layers- The other advantage now is that EQ / compression etc can be different FOH vs monitors.
Could be a good way to work… if a bit complex 🙂

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

Turns out that you can’t view files longer than 1 hr or so – Devs are working on a fix
apparently.

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

That was so helpful!
Thank you

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

Ok- have just now raised a ticket.
Thanks Keith
Andy

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

It doesn’t look like this this is supported directly..

I guess one way would be to create a scene that is a backup for the current scene with the inserts off and Allowed to Recall but mostly everything else to be SAFE or Blocked from change on the recall and to set the backup scene as Next scene for Recall and a soft key to trigger Go Recall in an emergency.
Obviously I have lost whatever I was using the waves for but show could go on very quickly …. better would be to have full redundancy or not use at all– I do get that

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

Thanks Steffen– that made sense / worked
your help is appreciated

Andy

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

I’m not a pro and there are lot of people here that know a hella lot more about this than I will ever do but I have been mixing live shows of many different kinds for 15 yrs or so.
One thing I have learned is that you have to use your ears. It is not about 4db between this or that. Or always having these compression settings or these EQ settings. Though pre-sets are often a really good starting point they are just that– a starting point. It’s about what sounds right in this show in the moment.

In a live context I often start with presets, but I tone them down. I experiment in soundcheck– “what happens if I bring that vocal up quite a bit? How hight can I roll up the high pass before I lose tone on the guitar or voice — when do I cut into the tone and then I back off..

And I make small changes slowly during the show but I still experiment..

Getting people in to help and train you is fantastic. Do that if you can.
Mostly they will show you HOW to do stuff. And that’s great. What is harder to learn is WHAT to do and WHEN to do it. When I do have a band’s engineer use my gear I watch what they do very carefully and I save the show file and look at afterwards.

And I practice.
I take my saved show files from my virtual soundchecks and I practice re-mixing them. Changing settings and seeing what happens.

And even better…
A site I have really been enjoying is this one: https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/live-from-the-lab-season%203

Here you can download recorded multi-tracks of all sorts of acts. The tracks are generally really well recorded.

I load the tracks into my DAW as stems, I set up my mixer as I would have if it were my show for that band and I play back the tracks from my DAW into that set up as USB inputs as a virtual soundcheck and have a crack at mixing them. Now I can experiment. Safely without artists or an audience.

The good thing is that for all the mixes at the site above (there a a few sessions) there is a mastered mix down of the song to aim at. (I think it is a good thing anyway – lol.
Some I have got pretty near sound wise– others not even close! Some of these recordings have been mixed and mastered very professionally in post.. so be kind to yourself 🙂

And start small.. there are some solo and duo acts- try those before working up to the bigger more complex bands. Train your ears to what happens when you play with this stuff.

Hope this helps a bit.
It’s a journey.

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

I think Scott’s advice is very good but I also think you need to go onto Youtube and watch a whole load of videos that explain the basics of live mixing. Watch what other people are doing.
Setting levels, basic EQ, monitor mixes, basic effects such as reverb. They don’t need to be SQ7 related yet– in fact most of the SQ videos are more feature specific than you need.

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

For what it’s worth I agree Dave– that caught me out too.. not at all obvious

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

@keith
Thank you very much Keith.
I really appreciate this forum. For an amateur like myself this kind of input from everyone is very helpful as I’m not surrounded by pros – I’m going out to gigs on my own.
And whilst its possible to find out HOW to do things learning WHAT to do and what not to do is much harder.

So thank you to everyone on this forum.

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

Many thanks Scott
And each time I send a signal out again I add to its path – so if I insert out to Waves on an input channel If I then include that input channel in a Group that also has an inserted Waves plugin (such as a compressor) Then my total latency for that signal is the sum of both trips to Waves.

And to the point made in the video you attached above– it can make a big difference: things can get pretty phasey sounding and thin (due to comb filtering I believe) if you don’t compensate even for these small time values – it’s especially noticeable in sparse mixes.

These docs were also helpful / interesting

https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4402940899857-SQ-Phase-coherent-mixing-in-SQ

https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4402940459537-SQ-Basic-Signal-Path-Diagrams-Input-Group-LR-Aux-Matrix
Though I wasn’t quite sure how to interpret the time based view in above.. is it drawn to scale? Does it imply that Tie-lines incur 0.7ms latency or 0?

Thank you

[WaihekeSoundieParticipant]

I’m still not sure I quite have this clear and just want to check my understanding of layered sends using groups.
I’m using an SQ5 with an AH Waves i/o card into a Waves Soundgrid Server running at 96kHz and Superrack.
Server network buffer is 80 samples = 0.8ms.. which is believe is the roundtrip latency.

In my test scenario I have 3 channels and a Vocal Group
– Vox Group 1 –> Sends to Waves on insert
– Vox 1 (in Vox group 1) also sends to Waves on insert
– Acc Gat sends to Waves on insert
– Cajon not sent to waves

I’m playing a recording on the 3 input channels in on the SQ USB B (From Reaper- also at 96kHz. Reaper is in the same computer as Superrack).

Let say I have no plugins in my waves for the test (or that they are all 0ms latency)
I think to align everything in this I need to align to the Vocals in the Vocal group whose signals have gone to the server twice so
1.6ms.
So Cajon has to be delayed 1.6ms as it has not been to the server at all
Acc Gat has to be delayed 0.8m as it has been to the only server once.

Would this be right?
It sounds a little bit phasey even when just dry round tripping through Superrack compared with all the inserts off and not sending to waves.
I think. Might be my my ears or it might be something I’m missing?

Thank you – really appreciated.

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