Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 140 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #107213
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Thanks Steffen– that made sense / worked
    your help is appreciated

    Andy

    #103957
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    I’m not a pro and there are lot of people here that know a hella lot more about this than I will ever do but I have been mixing live shows of many different kinds for 15 yrs or so.
    One thing I have learned is that you have to use your ears. It is not about 4db between this or that. Or always having these compression settings or these EQ settings. Though pre-sets are often a really good starting point they are just that– a starting point. It’s about what sounds right in this show in the moment.

    In a live context I often start with presets, but I tone them down. I experiment in soundcheck– “what happens if I bring that vocal up quite a bit? How hight can I roll up the high pass before I lose tone on the guitar or voice — when do I cut into the tone and then I back off..

    And I make small changes slowly during the show but I still experiment..

    Getting people in to help and train you is fantastic. Do that if you can.
    Mostly they will show you HOW to do stuff. And that’s great. What is harder to learn is WHAT to do and WHEN to do it. When I do have a band’s engineer use my gear I watch what they do very carefully and I save the show file and look at afterwards.

    And I practice.
    I take my saved show files from my virtual soundchecks and I practice re-mixing them. Changing settings and seeing what happens.

    And even better…
    A site I have really been enjoying is this one: https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/live-from-the-lab-season%203

    Here you can download recorded multi-tracks of all sorts of acts. The tracks are generally really well recorded.

    I load the tracks into my DAW as stems, I set up my mixer as I would have if it were my show for that band and I play back the tracks from my DAW into that set up as USB inputs as a virtual soundcheck and have a crack at mixing them. Now I can experiment. Safely without artists or an audience.

    The good thing is that for all the mixes at the site above (there a a few sessions) there is a mastered mix down of the song to aim at. (I think it is a good thing anyway – lol.
    Some I have got pretty near sound wise– others not even close! Some of these recordings have been mixed and mastered very professionally in post.. so be kind to yourself 🙂

    And start small.. there are some solo and duo acts- try those before working up to the bigger more complex bands. Train your ears to what happens when you play with this stuff.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    It’s a journey.

    #103928
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    I think Scott’s advice is very good but I also think you need to go onto Youtube and watch a whole load of videos that explain the basics of live mixing. Watch what other people are doing.
    Setting levels, basic EQ, monitor mixes, basic effects such as reverb. They don’t need to be SQ7 related yet– in fact most of the SQ videos are more feature specific than you need.

    #103858
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    For what it’s worth I agree Dave– that caught me out too.. not at all obvious

    #103834
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    @keith
    Thank you very much Keith.
    I really appreciate this forum. For an amateur like myself this kind of input from everyone is very helpful as I’m not surrounded by pros – I’m going out to gigs on my own.
    And whilst its possible to find out HOW to do things learning WHAT to do and what not to do is much harder.

    So thank you to everyone on this forum.

    #103810
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Many thanks Scott
    And each time I send a signal out again I add to its path – so if I insert out to Waves on an input channel If I then include that input channel in a Group that also has an inserted Waves plugin (such as a compressor) Then my total latency for that signal is the sum of both trips to Waves.

    And to the point made in the video you attached above– it can make a big difference: things can get pretty phasey sounding and thin (due to comb filtering I believe) if you don’t compensate even for these small time values – it’s especially noticeable in sparse mixes.

    These docs were also helpful / interesting

    https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4402940899857-SQ-Phase-coherent-mixing-in-SQ

    https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4402940459537-SQ-Basic-Signal-Path-Diagrams-Input-Group-LR-Aux-Matrix
    Though I wasn’t quite sure how to interpret the time based view in above.. is it drawn to scale? Does it imply that Tie-lines incur 0.7ms latency or 0?

    Thank you

    #103784
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    I’m still not sure I quite have this clear and just want to check my understanding of layered sends using groups.
    I’m using an SQ5 with an AH Waves i/o card into a Waves Soundgrid Server running at 96kHz and Superrack.
    Server network buffer is 80 samples = 0.8ms.. which is believe is the roundtrip latency.

    In my test scenario I have 3 channels and a Vocal Group
    – Vox Group 1 –> Sends to Waves on insert
    – Vox 1 (in Vox group 1) also sends to Waves on insert
    – Acc Gat sends to Waves on insert
    – Cajon not sent to waves

    I’m playing a recording on the 3 input channels in on the SQ USB B (From Reaper- also at 96kHz. Reaper is in the same computer as Superrack).

    Let say I have no plugins in my waves for the test (or that they are all 0ms latency)
    I think to align everything in this I need to align to the Vocals in the Vocal group whose signals have gone to the server twice so
    1.6ms.
    So Cajon has to be delayed 1.6ms as it has not been to the server at all
    Acc Gat has to be delayed 0.8m as it has been to the only server once.

    Would this be right?
    It sounds a little bit phasey even when just dry round tripping through Superrack compared with all the inserts off and not sending to waves.
    I think. Might be my my ears or it might be something I’m missing?

    Thank you – really appreciated.

    #103574
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Thank you Scott.. that’s awesome advice. Thank you very much

    #103573
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Ah! Thanks Keith.. that’s so helpful thank you

    #103562
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Thanks Scott,
    Lots of interesting info in that channel.
    Am still a bit unclear about when and how to apply latency compensation.

    Scenario 1:
    Band = 1 singer on stage
    FOH PA
    Stage Monitor.
    Singer is in wedge and in FOH.

    – Singer 1 Vocal channel has some SQ eq and compression but no inserted waves sends;
    – An Aux channel sends the vocal to a waves reverb (lets say 2ms latency) that is returned on a spare channel that is assigned to LR FOH (mostly) and to monitor send (a bit);

    Assuming that this is all there is here..
    Do I need to latency compensate here?
    I assume if I were to latency compensate it would be delay on the Singer 1 channel to align it with the returned Reverb?

    Scenario 2:
    Band = 2 singers on stage
    FOH PA
    Stage Monitors each.
    Both singers and the guitar are in each other’s wedges and in FOH.

    – Singer 1 Vocal channel has waves inserted rack that adds say 1.2ms;
    – Singer 2 Vocal channel has waves inserted rack that adds say 0.8ms;
    – Both vocals are in Aux send to waves reverb say 2.0ms
    – Singer 2 Acc guitar has some SQ eq and compression but no waves sends.

    Assuming that this is all there is here..
    What would I compensate and where?
    Would I use a Waves latency group across singer 1, 2 and the reverb racks to delay everything (back to the reverb in this eg)
    And delay the guitar in SQ to that group (so that spill is aligned?) ?

    I *might* have time in my set ups to do something like this in some cases

    Appreciate any advice anyone can offer on this to a newbie
    Thanks

    Andy

    #103536
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    More naive questions from me

    When using SuperRack to host plugin on a insert for an SQ channel- its pretty obvious that way to go is to patch the IO for the insert sends 1-1 with the soundgrid channel in SuperRack. That works really well.
    I guess would do the same with a Group- I can see how I would patch from a Group’s insert to a Rack if I wanted to put plugins across the group.

    What about bussed effects such as Reverb? The SQ FXs sends and returns are all internal and while the FXReturns can be patched as outputs there is no obvious way to return them unless I take a spare channel up as the return. Could do that? But it is will be going through the internal FX engine which is confusing. Seems better to leave the internal FX engine alone AS IS? Or do people use it?

    If not the internal FX then either an group or an AUX.. I know if I was patching to hardware I would use an AUX but I’m not patching an analog i/o.

    Andy

    #103523
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Hi Hugh,
    Um.. I have DX168 as well
    I bought a s/h “Impact Server”.. that might be a bit disappointing 🙁
    My card arrived yesterday– I will hook it up today and see what happens…
    I hope that I will cope
    I’m not looking to do massive amounts of processing in my live gig- sweeten vocals, tweak an acoustic guitar here and there– that sort of thing

    #103499
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Thanks Scott
    You use a touch screen I assume?

    #103171
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Thanks Steffen.

    Thanks Hugh.
    Yep- there is certainly a whole heap of stunning tools out there in hardware and software that, when used correctly and in the right context can make the process easier and richer for all involved. That said, not everything is for everyone or nor will everything suit every circumstance. Agreed.

    If anyone has any experience of hardware running LP signal chains without using such dedicated hardware as the UAD processors I would be interested in your findings of what gear specs work. Thank you

    #103163
    Profile photo of WaihekeSoundie
    WaihekeSoundie
    Participant

    Hey guys,
    Do you have any advice regarding laptop specs for using VSTs in Live Professor without dedicated outboard processing such as UAD or waves soundgrid?

    I have been experimenting with my SQ5 and LP2 and some waves VST plugins on a MacBook Pro. I am just taking the signal into my laptop via the analog hardware inputs and return on my RME Fireface UC which seems very stable at even very small buffers. (LP reports a lower overall latency for the same buffer settings when I use the RME usb connection than when I connect it to the SQ5’s i/o via usb (though I guess I might lose any gain of the RME drivers in the SQ5’s extra DA and AD conversions of sending and returning the signal?. IDK?))

    That said, as I increase the number of plug ins active in my LP chains I need to increase buffer (and therefore latency) as dropouts start to appear. I totally realise this is to be expected – I think that it is my MacBook’s ability to process the signal through the plug ins that is becoming the bottleneck- as opposed to the USB i/o connection but I’m not sure about that? All I can see is that the LP performance meter seems to be showing that the buffer is not keeping up for some reason. My MacBook is a 2019 Pro model- 1.4GHz i5 with 8GB. So it’s an entry level macbook pro but it’s not a really slow machine.

    What do you guys run your LP on?

    Forgive my very patchy understandings of above.
    Thank you for any comments you can share.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 140 total)