Volume in live setting

[Mophilly]

Warning: I am a first time user of A&H CQ-20B. I have had it for four weeks. I have experience with non-powered speakers and power amps + mixers. Your patience is greatly appreciated.

The device works fine. App connects, controls work. Simple set up with JBL EON 612 speakers in “mains” mode and an acoustic group worked fine for an outdoors group of 50 people.

In a different setting using older JBL powered speakers with a rock band in a rehearsal room the volume was too low. Singers and players had a hard time hearing the vocals. By virtue of there being a drummer the session was pretty load… not heavy metal or Rolling Stones by any stretch, no shredders. Think typical volume for an old style R&B quartet with decent gear.

The CQ-20B master faders were maxed as were the speakers. Inputs and outputs were typical of any live mix.

What have I overlooked or not learned? Do I need an amplifier of some type?

[Hugh]

The speaker stacks are the primary source for SR db levels. It is never a good idea to push any console to the max thus reducing your head room! Gain staging does not end with mic input levels, it’s the starting point followed by desk fader leveling and most importantly generating sufficient levels from the speaker stacks for appropriate venue coverage. Failure to deploy enough “horsepower” with SR speaker stacks is pretty much always fools gold that is rarely, if ever, successful.
Hugh

[Mophilly]

Thank you for the reply. I understand and agree with you about leaving headroom. We were just trying to deal with the sound level issue. So I reported that I had pushed everything to the max because it’s surprise me that even with that we didn’t get to the levels we needed.

Perhaps the speakers we have are just too old. I think they’re about 10 years old. I will hook it up to a couple of newer speakers to see if it makes a difference.

[Mophilly]

Oh, I forgot to mention. The old speakers work fine with a five-year-old Presonus 16 channel digital mixer board.

[SQuser]

> The CQ-20B master faders were maxed as were the speakers. Inputs and outputs were typical of any live mix.

The latter suggests that all inputs (gains) are correctly leveled and the mix faders are also at about 0 – is that the case?
If everything is as described, the level displays of the Main LR speakers should normally show maximum – and the speakers should be overloaded and distorted.
At least vocal microphones would feed back.

Did the same expert person prepare and operate the console for both bands?
Are the speakers actually connected to the outputs patched for Main LR?
Have you already saved this show and then reset the mix settings to the standard one?

[Hugh]

Given the additional info there may be an unintended suppression of input levels with the “auto feedback algorithm”, make sure it is disengaged with your initial gain staging.
Hugh

[KeithJ A&H]

@Mophilly

The CQ main balanced outputs are a standard professional line level +4dBu when your output meter is at 0dB.
More detailed info can be found in the following article – https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403616287889-General-Levels-and-Metering-in-A-H-Digital-Consoles

I’d suggest checking the input level the speakers or amp are expecting or set to.
It’s also best to ensure you are using balanced cabling throughout.

Thanks,
Keith.

[Mophilly]

Thanks to all for the replies.
1. We initially set all faders to 0.
2. Distortion was expected at max but that wasn’t audible.
3. No feedback during the session.
4. The same person who has been recording and mixing sessions for the past 20 years, the last five with the Presonus board, handled the set up of the CQ.
5. Each speaker was connected to the Main left or right. Left and right volume control on the CQ worked.
6. No, we did not save the “show”. Given it was our first attempt at using the device in a rock music session we assumed it would be a throw-away.

7. I will study the “auto feedback algorithm” idea.

8. I will study the article about general levels and metering.
9. I cannot speak to the input level of the speakers. I assumed that since they functioned as desired with the Presonus mixer input level was ok. These older powered speakers offer little in the way input control.
10. We use only XLR balanced cabling in the studio.

Again, thanks for the replies. I will continue to study this.

[Author]

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