Virtual Soundcheck 6db louder than recorded level

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of pfrigge pfrigge 8 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #94274
    Profile photo of pfrigge
    pfrigge
    Participant

    Lately I used virtual soundcheck and the level in all channels were about 6db louder than the “live” levels that were recorded. I could also reproduce this later.

    For recording and playback I used Studio One. It might be related to Studio One but I used it many times before with other consoles/interfaces without this problem. That’s why I am asking if someone also encountered this problem or has a tip what settings I can check.

    • Faders in Studio One are all at zero and no plugins are inserted, so playback should have exact same levels as recorded.
    • USB trims on SQ are all at zero.
    • Direct Out is set to post preamp.

    Thanks,
    Pascal

    #94330
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    Hi Pascal,

    There will be differences with different setups for virtual soundcheck, and although you could account for these with USB trim, we would recommend compensating in your DAW and then creating a template instead.
    This was discussed recently for Qu here ( https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/virtual-soundcheck-with-qu-24#post-93385 ).
    With SQ however, I would also suggest making use of Tie Lines.
    Tie Lines can route input sockets directly to output sockets, meaning as long as you take care when setting up and are not constantly changing your input socket to input channel patching (one-to-one is always a good plan where possible!), you will be able to leave this set ‘in the background’.
    Then you can make use of Input Channel Patch libraries to switch between your ‘live’ input patch (from mics/line etc.) and ‘VSC’ input patch (from the DAW).

    Hope this helps šŸ™‚
    Keith.

    #94337
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @KeithJ A&H
    @pfrigge

    Most DAWs have 6 to 12 dB less headroom than the AH mixers allow.
    That makes them sound 6-12 dB louder if you think things are supposed to match.

    #94360
    Profile photo of pfrigge
    pfrigge
    Participant

    Hi Keith,

    ok, we already compensated for the difference in the DAW. Thanks for the affirmation.
    But I don’t quite get what you suggested the Tie Lines for. Did you mean to path input sockets to USB output sockets? In which way does this effect the use of patch libraries? We already use patch libraries without using tie lines for switching between local/slink and usb.

    @volunteer Thanks for the hint to the actual cause.

    #94364
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    tie lines are additional possible

    these allow to leave out all processing in the path
    you can now record the preamp signal direct to hard disk
    and still use your channels as before

    the use of patch libraries doesn’t change anything if you already used them

    #94366
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @pfrigge,

    Using tie lines for recording is slightly different to working with direct outs and there are a benefits for each method depending on your setup and workflow.
    If you change your input socket to input channel patching a lot for example, then it would make sense to use the direct outputs for virtual soundcheck recording as the socket would change, but you’re always recording the processing channel.
    Or if you want to carry out virtual soundcheck and then switch to a recording setup for the live event with the same setup but processing included (i.e. you can switch the global direct out from post-pre to a post-processing point just before the actual performance), again, direct outs would be the way to go.
    If however, you use a ME system (which you would want to use direct outputs for) you would definitely want to use tie lines.

    Personally I find tie lines the easier concept for VSC, as it means it is the source/socket which is being switched between the live and virtual/recorded signals, without touching input processing channels.
    Rather than using direct outs where the tap off must be checked. Also, when playing back from USB/Dante/Waves, I know I’m not sending the recorded signal straight back out to the recording device again (just in case I mess up something with the monitoring!).

    Cheers,
    Keith.

    #94373
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    Also, when playing back from USB/Dante/Waves, I know Iā€™m not sending the recorded signal straight back out to the recording device again (just in case I mess up something with the monitoring!)

    good point, never thought about that

    #94380
    Profile photo of pfrigge
    pfrigge
    Participant

    If however, you use a ME system (which you would want to use direct outputs for) you would definitely want to use tie lines.

    Since we actually use a ME system this is a very helpful advice and totally makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to describe pros and cons of USB recording via Tie Lines in greater detail!

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