Forums › Forums › Qu Forums › Qu general discussions › Too much gain issues
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2020/03/09 at 6:55 am #90126
Xyz, the mic is positioned about 3″ from the edge of the head pointing towards the center of the head. It didn’t help moving it farther more (5 or 6″) still had the same too hot peaking signal, unless I used the analog mixer, zed12fx in this case.
2020/03/09 at 7:23 am #90127
AnonymousOK I see
There is NO pad on local inputs unless you use an AR digital stage box!?
I have just plugged into my QU an AR84 ~ 8 channel[Purple club] and there is a pad on the touch screen when switched to digital input.
However it seems that as Mike said it sounds like the reverb is the issue?
So are you wanting to use this in recording or for live sound?
I would have thought that the external pads you purchased would have brought back that level of signal level down to a manageable level?2020/03/09 at 9:51 am #90128Xyz
Nope, the shure attenuator did not solve the situation (level did go down, but it still peaked at stronger snare shots).
What solved the situation and what worked always, was when I am using the analog mixer (zed12fx) at its -10db.
And yes: I want to use this for both live and recordings.2020/03/09 at 1:32 pm #90136@Dado
Was the analog saturating?
Try using the compressor on the Qu to stop those peaks.
Or add another attenuator in series with the first one.
2020/03/09 at 1:42 pm #90137Any compressor on the QU will not stop the pre amp input from clipping.
Again what I heard in the audio clip did not sound like the dry snare channel
was clipping only when reverb was added did it sound distorted.It would be possible to overdrive the FX input and or output.
2020/03/09 at 2:43 pm #90140Mike, it is clipping on a new clean scene without any fxes.
2020/03/09 at 2:56 pm #90141You might want to try some dampening or muting directly on your snare. There are many ways to quiet a loud drum without changing its tone too much. You might also try not mounting the mic to the snare rim. Use a stand.
2020/03/09 at 3:49 pm #90142Gary I tried holding the mic with my left hand 4-5″ above the edge of the head (no mounts or stands) while hitting the snare with my right hand, and it still clipped.
2020/03/09 at 5:32 pm #90148@Dado
You *could* play softer.
You could add another attenuator if the problem is overdriving the mike.
You could ask why you are the only one with this problem that can’t find an easy fix to it.
You *COULD* play softer.
2020/03/09 at 6:45 pm #90156As I mentioned in my previous post, try dampening or muting the snare directly. Or even loosening the head a bit.
2020/03/10 at 12:50 am #90166
AnonymousMaybe you could get/beg/borrow an AR84 to try if you are only using 7~8 channels?
That would give you an extra -20 db pad.
I notice on the Earthworks demo video The DM20 is or looks quite a way from the snare pointing in towards the centre.
I also notice from your pic the snare channel which I’m guessing is channel 2 ? is really high on your QU which will drive the reverb high as well?2020/03/10 at 2:11 am #90168Guys guys, thanks for all the replies. This has so far been an issue with a single mixer (qu16) that won’t go below -5db.
If indeed we do a show with that particular mixer, then I’d just take the zed12fx with me and solve the problem. I’m guessing most of the analogue mixers would recieve this signal even with 15db of attenuation only, and probably most of the digital ones as well. Worst case scenario; if -25db is too hot, bring in my audix i5.
(no, playing softer is simply not an option – Those heavy Rude cymbals cannot be played softly so the snare needs to project as well).
Anyways, here is a short sample from today’s rehearsal, I quite like how it turned out to be so far:
PS
That pic of channel 2 is indeed snare level, but the highest I could take in my iems for my mix, while both pafls being nicely in the green.2020/03/11 at 8:28 am #90205Just learning how to play drums. Tell me, will there be a difference in sound if you use different small drums when using condenser microphones? I plan to choose one of these models, but I haven’t made a final decision yet.
2020/03/11 at 12:23 pm #90209I wouldn’t worry about that. Just get a standard size drums that will give you average volume. Your primary concern is to practice as much as you can; especially when you don’t want to 🙂
2020/03/13 at 2:41 pm #90261The real problem here is exactly as the title says; too much gain. …Or more specifically, poor mic choice for a loud source.
Because the mic is a condenser, it has very fast transient response. This means that the initial attack of the top drum head is preserved as a very fast high spike in the signal. (Dynamic mics tend to naturally compress this.) Secondly, the mic has a high sensitivity rating (3mV/Pa) which means the output signal is already much hotter than most dynamic mics. Thirdly, you have placed it on one of the loudest instruments in the world which is being played heavily at times. I know the mic is aimed at drums, but a tightly tuned (poppy) snare being played extremely hard is delivering too much dynamic range for the mixer to deal with.
Result: The initial transient peak is so high that it is overdriving the analog preamp in the mixer, causing brief distortion with each hard hit. Adding reverb only serves to make the distortion more audible.
The only quick fixes I can think of would be as follows:
1. Use a heavier in-line pad, but then the light hits will not be loud enough.
2. Use an outboard compressor prior to the mixer to control transient peaks, but then you won’t have phantom power to the mic.
3. Use a lower sensitivity dynamic mic.
4. Don’t hit the snare so hard. Avoid rim shot.
5. Detune the top head to reduce its volume, but then it won’t sound as cool. -
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