Submixing

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of BLKGHOST BLKGHOST 6 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #44151
    Profile photo of Lou
    Lou
    Participant

    Hi everyone! I’ve been working a lot with the Qu-16 in both events (conferences and fairs) and live music and I tried to figure out the best way to make it better within the software, dsp and hardware limits. I have three suggestions of wich this is my first one, hope it will be usefull for further firmware updates.

    Sub mixing: One of the things I miss the most on this mixer is the possibility of submixing. It was nice to have at least the DCA option but submixing would be possible and easy if only the option of ASSIGNING THE MIXES TO THE MASTER MIX in the upper fader layer was abiable as it is for the stereo and FX channels. That way it shouldnÂŽt require much software development issues and the users would be able to submix using for instance the 9-10 mix and then use the dynimics and EQ through the Mix 9-10 master fader in the upper layer of faders (within the master mix selection) to process that mix. Very usefull for parallel drum compression or things like that.

    #44154
    Profile photo of Lou
    Lou
    Participant

    Other way to make this option possible is to allow the signal to go through an empty rack in the FX menu so you can use this “empty rack” or might be even some kind of “submix effect rack” with “Mix-> FX Return” option, right now this is not possible because the signal can’t go through the empty racks even though you can patch it as “Mix -> FX return”. The thing with this way of doing it is that the FX return channels have graphic and parametric equalizers but they don’t have dynamic processors, so you wouldn’t be able to compress channels together wich is the main reason I would like the submixing option aviable.

    #44159
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    I guess its intended that groups are only available on Qu24/32…

    #44161
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    If you want to do group processing NOW, simply use Mix 7/8 and/or 9/10 and hard patch them into ST1 /ST2 using XLRF > TRS jumpers. Un-assign the original channels from the Mains L/R bus so you’re not doubling and you have two usable groups available as is.
    Latency is NOT an issue.

    #44165
    Profile photo of Lou
    Lou
    Participant

    Yep. That’s what I’m doing right now when I neet to subgroup anything. 😉

    #44231
    Profile photo of steph87
    steph87
    Participant

    bonjour

    je crois que j’ai un probleme similaire:
    si je crĂ©e un sous groupe et que j’affecte un effet Ă  un fader de ce sous groupe, si je mute le sous groupe, l’effet , alors que le sous groupe est mutĂ© ,s’entend dans le master LR

    ce n’est pas normal, avez vous une solution ?
    meci

    #44240
    Profile photo of eotsskleet
    eotsskleet
    Participant

    Hey steph87, it would be easier in english but thanks to you i refreshed my french knowledge! I think your problem is that you still have the channels assigned to the Main LR as well to the subgroup! Just unassign these channels from Main and then when you press the Mute button of the subgroup there should no more sound going through!
    (Is it that what you are asking for?) 🙂

    #44242
    Profile photo of steph87
    steph87
    Participant

    merci

    les voix ne sont affectĂ©s qu’aux sub, pas au master lr
    donc en theorie quand on mute un sub, les fx doivent etre coupĂ©s egalement ce qui n’est pas le cas

    thank you

    the voices are only assigned to sub, not to the master lr
    therefore in theory when a mute sub, fx must also be cut which is not the case

    #44245
    Profile photo of eotsskleet
    eotsskleet
    Participant

    Ou then i miss understood you! If you send the group-signal to the FX engine then it would mute the fx signal as well! If you send the single input channels to the fx unit then the group-mute doesn’t effect the FX sends! (That’s the same like analog! Think analog – with this mixer it’s possible 😉

    #44251
    Profile photo of steph87
    steph87
    Participant

    i don’t understand

    so, this is an exemple:

    ch1 kick
    ch2 2 snare

    ch1 and ch2 only send to group 1/2, not to master LR

    i put fx1 on ch1/kick
    i put fx2 on ch2 2/snare

    then actually, if i mute group1/2, i cant’ hear kick and snare, it’s normal, BUT i still hear the fx1 and fx2 !!

    so, in this exemple , how can mute kick , snare and the fxs when I mute group 1/2 ?

    merci

    #44252
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    Try selecting “insert” as your set-up for your FX instead of “mix>return”. Insert the effect on the sub-group. That way you should have a closed loop which will mute along with the channels.

    Or try your current FX assignment and un-assign the FX returns from the L/R mains bus just like you un-assign the grouped channels from the mains bus.

    #44253
    Profile photo of BLKGHOST
    BLKGHOST
    Participant

    I answered that in another post. A group is NOT a DCA. If I take you example, the mute on the group is not like muting CH1 and CH2. That’s why you can usually hear them when they are assigned to LR as well. So muting a group don’t mute the channel. It mutes the group.

    When you use FX, you are not puting an FX to a channel. You are sending a copy of the signal of the channel to the FX (the FX is like another group/mix). So the FX (your wet signal) is not assigned to the group. Your wet is still assigned to LR. It is important to understand the signal path.

    So you actually have 2 copy of each signal. One going to the group and one going to the FX.

    Now to do what you want :

    Remove FX1 Ret and FX2 Ret from LR and assign it to the group (as you did with CH1 and CH2). Now muting the group will also mute your FX.

    #44254
    Profile photo of BLKGHOST
    BLKGHOST
    Participant

    Je t’avais rĂ©pondu sur un autre post. Un group n’est pas comme un DCA. Lorsqu’on mute un groupe, ce n’est pas comme si on faisait mute sur chacun des channels. Le signal peu encore etre envoyĂ© ailleur comme dans le mix LR par example ou dans les retours

    Lorsque tu utilises un effet, techniquement, on ne met pas un effet sur le signal. On envoi une copie du signal dans un effet. Donc tu as 2 copy signal maintenant. 1 dans ton groupe et un qui va dans l’effet (ton wet qui revient dans FX1 Ret). Ton Effet lui n’est pas assignĂ© au groupe. Seulement ton CH1.

    Pour faire ce que tu veux, tu dois aussi assigner l’effet au groupe (FX1 Ret par example) et l’enlever du LR comme tu as fait pour tes CH1 et CH2.

    #44255
    Profile photo of steph87
    steph87
    Participant

    merci pour ta réponse BLK
    je comprends bien ton explication

    sauf que dans ce cas tu rends indisponible cet effet pour le reste des entrees qui ne sont pas assignées au sous groupe!!!

    thank you for your answer BLK
    I understand your explanation

    except that in this case (fxrtn assigned only to the sub ) you make unavailable this effect for the rest of the entries that are not assigned to the subgroup !!!

    Dick:
    I tried but it does not work

    the question is:
    how to mute a sub-group and its effects while making this effect available for other sources that are not assigned to this sub group

    #44257
    Profile photo of BLKGHOST
    BLKGHOST
    Participant

    Alors dans ton cas tu peux considerer d’utiliser un des 4 groupes mute. Tu devras y assigner le groupe de submix et les CH. Ou un des DCA ave les CH..

    So in your case, maybe you can consider using a mute group. Assign the channels and the submix group you want to mute. Or a DCA? Just need to assign the channels you want to mute.

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