Stage volume affecting FOH mix

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This topic contains 25 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Hawk Hawk 6 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 11 posts - 16 through 26 (of 26 total)
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  • #47031
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    @gilly: So, if that guitar player “needs” his guitar that loud, you better generate that level from a powerful yet directional wedge not from a more or less omnidirectional guitar amp. If he’s running the stage while playing, IEM for him would probably the best solution.
    As already mentiond, its his decision if the band plays for the audience or own fun.
    Of course this is a diplomatic issue, you can’t get a nice sound against the musicians on stage. You have to build one team with the musicians. They’re responsible playing correct notes and you ensure the audience can hear them on an acceptable level. This only works if all are pulling the rope in same direction.

    Any chance someone else plays his guitar on the same level, so he can hear the mud from the audience? Sometimes this helps to clarify standpoints…

    #47032
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I think all you guys at that church just need to have a ‘come to Jesus’ pow wow and decide just who you are playing for or trying to please. It is a common problem I have seen a lot. The exceptions are churches that have a media director or some such person who is the production coordinator for all things stage related. He sets the rules and agenda. I work with one church that has an incredible guy for this position. The worship leader bows to him. Everything must pass through him. He is very good. Very understanding. A musician himself. Plays guitar sometimes with the team. They have no amps on stage. Electronic drums with real cymbals. All players on IEMS. Praise singers on powered wedges. It works and sounds really good. Most times it is praise band with praise team and choir and on special occasions even orchestra. You can hear everything very nice.

    I know all churches can’t do that but it is an example. It is a team effort. No one is a star unto himself.

    #47033
    Profile photo of dpdan
    dpdan
    Participant

    “I think all you guys at that church just need to have a β€˜come to Jesus’ pow wow and decide just who you are playing for”
    Gecumbee sets them straight as usual. πŸ™‚

    They need to check their ego at the door and use their gifts to cause the congregants to enter into a state of worship with their sounds.
    well said Gecumbee! Good for you πŸ™‚

    #47034
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    Thanks. Didn’t think it was all that great but I’ll take it. After 40+ years in this biz I have seen it all. Just don’t tolerate BS anymore. :).

    #47037
    Profile photo of dpdan
    dpdan
    Participant

    I agree, life is too short πŸ™‚

    #47038
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    In this case, even if you mute the FOH, they should still be performing like nothing happened πŸ™‚

    I’ve had this happen with the covers band – the main power amp failed (still don’t know why). did virtually all my investigation Sioux them stopping…
    “The show must go on”

    #47062
    Profile photo of gilly
    gilly
    Participant

    Thanks all you guys for your input, very helpful and also encouraging.
    I do agree that we should think of ourselves as one team and I also like to think of us (i.e. the whole congregation but in this case specifically the sound + worship teams) as a family who sometimes disagrees but gets on with it and has each others backs.

    I am contemplating suggesting to look at the ME-1 in-ear system. I notice from the official publication that they say “ME-1 is the cornerstone of the ME Personal Mixing System and is ready to use with the Allen & Heath iLive and GLD series digital mixers” but they don’t include the QU series in this statement. Is this because the ME-1 brochure was published before the QU desk ?. Will it work just as well with our QU-24, I assume so but just want to be absolutely sure before I start suggesting this as a viable option. We still use the analogue multi-core cable (with XLR’S both ends) for our new QU-24 as they are all wirede and solidly connected to 6 total floor level stage boxes. But we also ran a CAT-5 cable down between desk and stage as backup, so I’m thinking we could use this as the SNAKE connection between QU-24 and the ME-1 monitor boxes. I like that each musician can select up to 16 channels (which is more than enough for our church worship needs) as our current Furman HR-6 in-ear system only allows 5 channels.

    #47065
    Profile photo of cornelius78
    cornelius78
    Participant

    The me-1s are compatible with Qu. They can mix 40 channels, you’re not limited to 16. Although the qu24 only has 30x inputs, you can also send mixes, LR and fx returns to the me-1s too, not just the input channels; the 40x channels are assignable. There are a whole lot of caveats that apply when getting the band to mix their own monitors though. If it’s just remote control they need, perhaps look into the qu-you app for iOS and android.

    #47066
    Profile photo of gilly
    gilly
    Participant

    Yes I understand you can select up to 40 channles(or 30 in my case with the QU24) but only 16 directly, if you want more you have to group them and then go into that group and individually select, isn’t that correct?
    What do you mean there are a whole load of caveats, from what i read it seems to be very easy and intuitive to use, no?
    Re the QU-Pad, that would only allow the musicians to mix themselves on the existing wedge monitors. This would be DISASTROUS altogether as they would all have their own wedges very loud…….NO WAY

    #47068
    Profile photo of cornelius78
    cornelius78
    Participant

    Yes, you’re right with the 16 vs 40 thing. You can send 40 channels to the me1s, then each me1 user decides how to mix those 40 channels. They have 16 groups to fit those 40 channels in. Each group can contain anywhere from 0-40 channels, and they can be set differently on each me1. Eg your drummer might have 8 of his 16 as individual drum channels, and group the backing vox. The backing vocalists might use ch1-8 for vocals and reverbs etc, then create a group for ksh.

    Re the caveats, I was referring to a band mixing their own monitors in general, not specifically using the me1s. The main three caveats include the band paying more attention to tweaking their individual mixes than actually playing their instruments (especially at the start when there’s a cool new toy with a bit of a learning curve,) giving themselves “more me” and completely destroying the stage noise, and finally creating feedback and not knowing hiw to fix it quickly. Admittedly those last 2 are more if an issue if you’re using wedges instead of iems.

    To me it seems that spending > $600pp to fix a stage volume problem is an expensive way to go when what really needs to happen is some amps get turned down. If people are arguing about who has control of which mix, then mixing via qu-you could help, and would be cheaper than me1s, but then you’re back to the caveats.

    #47079
    Profile photo of Hawk
    Hawk
    Participant

    Personal mixes have to be used with headphone, so no caveats there. I found Qu-you + powerplay p1 a good solution.

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