Scenes Midi Program Change

[giusfre]

Hi! I’m studing SQ manual and SQ Mix pad before buying. For me is essential scenes midi program change.
I have about 250 backing tracks each with his own midi program change but they operate on channel 1, 3 and 4 (channel 2 is dedicated to e-drums module)
If I have understand well can the SQ operate only on midi channel 1,2 and 3 (for scenes from 1 to 300) for program change?
Is it possible to assign specific midi channel to scenes on SQ? If yes how?
If it is not possible I have to change more than 150 midi for each song!!!
Many many thanks

[KeithJ A&H]

@giusfre

The SQ uses a bank change message followed by a program change message to access all 300 scenes, as described here – https://www.allen-heath.com/content/uploads/2023/11/SQ-MIDI-Protocol-Issue5.pdf#page=9&zoom=auto,-307,553
By using bank and program changes in this way (rather than different MIDI channels) the SQ is following the MIDI standard.

There are only ever 2 MIDI channels per device – the unit/mixer MIDI channel which can be set, and the DAW Control MIDI channel which is the unit MIDI channel +1.
It is not possible to use different MIDI channels to recall different scenes or groups of scenes on the SQ.
So unfortunately it doesn’t sound like your backing tracks are set up in a way that will work with the SQ, or other MIDI devices which follow the MIDI standard.

What are you using the backing tracks with at the moment?

Thanks,
Keith.

[giusfre]

Hi Keith…many many thanks for your answer!
I’m using a cymaticaudio uTrack 24 to send midi program change (backingtracks and midi file made in Cubase) but I will soon go to a M-Live B.Beat Pro.
At the moment I’m using a Soundcraft Expression 1 as console (I’m going to by an SQ5 but we are “dreaming” about an Avantis Solo) and there you can chose for every scene wich midi channel and note/number to use.
If I have understand well I have to redone all the midi file of my backingtracks (except for the ones that operate program change on midi channel 1) to make them operate midi program change on midi channel 1, 2 and 3?
It could be a good new feature the possibility to assigne whatever midi channel and number for scenes on SQ. Nowadays quite each band use backing tracks and program change to control console and all others gear…;)

[KeithJ A&H]

@giusfre

dLive and Avantis make use of multiple MIDI channels for control, but they respond to bank change + scene change being sent to one channel (the first/lowest of the range) to access all 500 scenes.
So again with these, you wouldn’t use multiple MIDI channels to access all scenes – you would just set the mixer base MIDI channel, then have all your MIDI files send a bank change first (to select the range of scenes) followed by a program change (to select the individual scenes), using a single MIDI channel.

I had a quick look but it wasn’t immediately obvious whether or not you can send a bank change and a program change from those devices, but if they’re playing back MIDI files, it should definitely be possible (because it’s part of the MIDI specification).

Thanks,
Keith.

[giusfre]

Ok! Now it starts to become a little bit clear!!!
So I need to send 3 information for scenes midi program change: midi channel (1), bank and program change value (0-127) instead of the two (midi channel and program change value) that I use now. Correct?
About midi channel (only 1 if I have undestend well) and program change no way to make it wrong…but do you know wich is the midi command (CC) I have to chose in Cubase for the bank change?
Sorry if I continue to bore you with this question but until I fully understand how to use this function, and others, I can’t think of switching (and buying) the mixer. thanks again

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[giusfre]

Now I have a new doubt. In the same midi file I have on all the other channels the program changes for other devices and the midi tracks, each on a different channel, that control the lights. Isn’t it that all these midi signals also arriving at the SQ trigger some other command? Can I make it so that the SQ receives midi signals exclusively on channel 1?

[KeithJ A&H]

@giusfre

Generally speaking, with MIDI you have a device or port (e.g. the SQ USB MIDI connection), then the MIDI channel (1-16), then the message you want to send such as bank/program change, or control/function and value.
If you cannot select by port, then you will need to ensure the different MIDI devices are on different channels. By setting the SQ MIDI channel, you are telling it to ignore messages for other channels.
What the bank change and program change message looks like in hex is shown in the MIDI protocol document linked to previously.
A quick search found the following for sending bank change (select) messages using Cubase – https://archive.steinberg.help/cubase_ai/v10.5/en/cubase_nuendo/topics/using_midi_devices/midi_devices_using_program_change_and_bank_select_about_c.html

Hope this helps!
Keith.

[giusfre]

Ok…many thanks!
So if I select midi channel 1 on SQ it will receive only messages from midi channel 1 and ignore all other midi channels…that’s one less problem for me!
I hope I have understand.
Now I only need an SQ to try…
For shure I have to redone all my backingtrack midi! I’m getting to work!
Many many thanks for your valuable help!

[giusfre]

Sorry…last question. I have standard 5 pin midi port output from where I send midi messages to all devices so I think I will need to use Bome Bomebox to “convert” midi to the SQ. Do you know if this it will be ok?

[KeithJ A&H]

@giusfre

No need to apologise!
The Bomebox is a MIDI hub and router (and translator).
It can send and receive MIDI over a network (wireless host/client or wired ethernet), USB and 5 pin DIN.
By default it routes all inputs to all outputs, but you can choose where to route things as you like and also include translation if you want, just note that you need a Bome MIDI Translator Pro licence to create the translation files that you then upload.

So in short, yes, you can connect 5 pin DIN to the Bomebox and route the MIDI through to an SQ via a network connection.

Cheers,
Keith.

[giusfre]

Sorry…while I’m here I’ll use this “direct line” with you to ask you a technical question that will determine my choice of stage boxes to buy.
On the SQ working at 48 kHz or 96 kHz is exactly the same in tearm of perfomance?

I mean…can I use the same number of eq, comp, plug-ins, fx on all channels and buses or when working at 96kHz the console starts to “struggle” before than on working at 48kHz?

About FX rack…assuming I would use 6 FX (reverb, delays, etc…) for all input channel if i will buy add on fx plug-in as the MultiBD Multiband Compressor (or DynEQ4 Dynamic EQ) can I use only one of them each one as insert only on one input or mix channels? So 6 FX+2 plug-ins…5 Fx+3 plug-ins…?

Can I duplicate input on different channel to make different processing of the same input source?

I’m working on the SQMixPad PC app to try to fully understand how the SQ works but I’m still not clear on how to manage the send and return of any FX beyond the first 4.As send I need to use one of the Aux send…but for return?

Again sorry for all this question…I’m literally studying the manual and watching hundreds of tutorials on the internet every day…but some things are still not clear to me and I would like to be prepared for the imminent day of purchase to be immediately operational (I will have to prepare the configuration and more than 200 scenes for each of the songs in our repertoire in the shortest time possible).

Thanks again

[Søren Steinmetz]

Keith might be better at explaining, however a short from me:

The console is always running 96Khz internally, so the only performance difference will be the sample difference between 48K and 96K stageboxes.
(a bit more headroom on the 96K, mainly important in classical/symphony recordings imho)

Input duplicating is easy, just patch the same input to multiple processing channels in the I/O patch/matrix.
Only thing they will share then is gain/phantom power/pad everything else will be seperated.

For more than 4 FX at once, you need to “convert” one or more of the Aux sends to FX.
Never needed it, so might be better to get Keith to explain 😉

[SQuser]

Allow me to add something else:

> a bit more headroom on the 96K
The sampling rate does not increase the headroom, only a higher bit depth could do that.

> So 6 FX+2 plug-ins…5 Fx+3 plug-ins…?
Yes, that’s exactly how it is.

> the first 4.As send I need to use one of the Aux send…but for return?
There are 8 didicated returns – are not visible until needed.

[KeithJ A&H]

@giusfre

Soren and SQuser have provided some good info here, but if you have further questions or need more detail you can contact us directly through support.allen-heath.com
(rather than going completely off topic)

Thanks!
Keith.

[giusfre]

Hi Keith…
I’ve made a little scheme for the cubase midi program change and added to the page of the SQ midi manual. If I understand correctly it should be like this?
There’s just one thing that’s not clear to me (I know I sound stupid)?
Why in your diagram is the midi channel marked “0” for midi channel 1 and “2” for midi channel 3…and I assume it should be “1” for midi channel 2 (the one that is green in the first explanation)?
I have read the note about the offset and I have applaied to the program change value…but for midi channel I don’t think it could be valuable? I can’t send midi channel “0” from cubase…only from 1 to 16 obviously!
I know it may seem like a very stupid question but this value you marked for the midi channel just doesn’t make sense to me…

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