Scene for each song??

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This topic contains 19 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of [XAP]Bob [XAP]Bob 6 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
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  • #45520
    Profile photo of audiokla
    audiokla
    Participant

    Hallo,
    as a complete newbie with digital mixers, I would like to ask the pros here about their experience.

    I have to mix a cover band in some shows with about 60 Songs. I know them very well, so we have time to practice together.
    Does it make sense to save one scene for each song? So that they have individual settings? My only job would then be to switch between the scenes and to fix and correct the loudness settings (e.g. gain etc.)
    What do you think about that?
    Greetings from Germany
    Klaus

    #45522
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    Recalling scenes can be a great tool, but go carful!

    There’s a lot of stuff that can be saved which you don’t want to change per song, like main eq & graphics on monitors.

    Then there’s changes you need to make on the night (singer has a sore throat tonight) and not have to re-do every song.

    So make sure you really understand the way scenes work, and the use of “filters” and “safe”.

    #45523
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    I do the same, mix for a covers band, but I don’t use scenes per song.

    I do have an overall scene for them, but not per song. Every so often I think I ought to do so, but many years later, and I still haven’t done it.

    I tend to find that despite the fairly wide range of music (1950’s through 2010’s) I don’t need to do a lot of eq tweaks between songs, so there would be a relatively little benefit, and enormous risk in terms of changing the wrong thing.

    #45524
    Profile photo of John-S
    John-S
    Participant

    AudioKLA,

    MarkPAman has mentioned the biggest downside of using one scene per song and then evolving your technique, equipment list or playing different venues. To absolutely rely on scene-per-song you would have to have the vision of every other element saved in your board that can possibly be a factor in future changes to your setup or workflow. That being said it would not stop me from attempting it. To safeguard your self you can take a snapshot of what you have NOW before you recall a past saved scene in case the poop strikes the ventilator.

    Scene recalls have made my life much easier but it also occasionally has made me look like a fool because of unexpected recall of old configurations.

    For example do you always run the master fader at the exact same position for each gig? I know you can scene safe this control but changes in this single control has ramifications to the rest of the mix owing to stage wash,room echo and the vigor of the musicians. Just one example out of a zillion.

    John

    #45526
    Profile photo of John-S
    John-S
    Participant

    AudioKLA,

    Further thoughts;

    Is this band so diverse and are most members that multi-instrumented to require significant changes between songs? (That would be a challenge I’d enjoy).

    Are you trying to reproduce genres so divergent that massive effects changes are required? (That would be cool)

    Are there so many instrumentation changes within a song that are humanly impossible to recreate instantly? (A dream job)

    That is the when recalls come into their own. By all means find a good fit for scene recalls that work for you. They can make you look like a wizard or a klutz. Practice safe sound.

    John

    #45531
    Profile photo of audiokla
    audiokla
    Participant

    Hi,

    thank you for your kind answers and your experiences.
    I thought the same. My problem is also, that the band will play many songs without a break, that might be difficult to change the scenes, isn’t it?

    #45532
    Profile photo of John-S
    John-S
    Participant

    The change between scenes (songs) happens instantly. It can happen also silently depending on what you have programmed and when you change the scene. That should never be a problem though.

    For example they are transitioning to a new song while one instrument plays a segue. Simply hold your finger in that channel’s fader and do not allow it to change during the recall and the scene change will go unnoticed. A thousand other things can change silently in the background. I do that all the time.

    John

    #45546
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Simply hold your finger in that channel’s fader and do not allow it to change during the recall and the scene change will go unnoticed

    Really? is that on a QU?
    I have not looked at this?
    SO are you saying by holding down the select green button on a channel strip? That channel wont change in a scene recall?

    Im just thinking a scenario where like an MC on a radio mic or a person (money channel) comes up on stage and starts talking, one could action a scene recall but you didn’t have time to change safes etc..?

    #45548
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    No, hold the fader, the motor will give up

    #45550
    Profile photo of John-S
    John-S
    Participant

    The fader motor is weak and can easily be held by finger to not move. The motor is only energized for a split second so it wont heat up or anything else. I promise it shall do NO HARM to the fader, its motor or the motor drive circuitry.

    John

    #45551
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    oh yes I see, ok however the dynamics EQ would change?
    I had a situation where I recalling some folk bands and I had the FOH muted ion one of the scenes
    Ahem.. the MC was on his radio-mic doing his speel his mic went: dead-ant.. dead-ant..dead-ant dead-ant dead-ant…. 🙂

    #45552
    Profile photo of dcongdon
    dcongdon
    Participant

    I would like to hear from Nicola on this, personally. I would NOT recommend adding resistance to a motorized fader in any circumstance. Same goes for moving ganged/linked faders in opposing directions. All you do is fatigue the motor/band beyond its design. If you do not want the fader to move, then set a scene filter or safe.

    #45553
    Profile photo of av8en1
    av8en1
    Participant

    12 months ago I was new to digital mixers, the Q16 being my first. I feel like I am only now beginning to learn the intricacies of the Q and digital mixer workflow. Scenes recall is certainly a powerful feature, but you hardly need to implement it before learning the enormous number of other features now available to you (that were either outboard equipment or not available) on an analog mixer.
    Also, I’m a big fan of the KISS Principle.

    #45554
    Profile photo of av8en1
    av8en1
    Participant

    Are the Q fader knobs mechanically coupled to a stepper motor w/gearing, possibly with a slipper clutch, or magnetically coupled or ? Do they have an integrated LVDT for position acquisition?

    IMHO: Till I hear from Nicola I will continue to cringe ever time I press a Q’s button with my hand position causing a resistance to a fader’s movement. I’ve dealt with actuators my entire life, and except for systems using a slipper clutch, no good can come from offering resistance to an actuator unless it was designed to do work. At the price point of a Q the fact that it has motorized fader’s at all is unbelievable.

    #45555
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Hello John
    I was an office equipment tech (electro mechanical) for about 30 years whilst playing as a musician as well.
    So I understand your cringing.
    At least the QU dosn’t have rubber bands with pulleys. :+)

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