Ringing Out The Room – Channel or Overall PEQ?

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This topic contains 170 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of zzzzzzris zzzzzzris 5 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 171 total)
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  • #47158
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Please write a list of anything you want to know and I’ll gladly advise.
    Ive posted Showfiles on other posts but no one has responded to them.

    #47159
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Only three points:
    – How does your feedback sound? (High or low pitch)
    – Where is your PA located in relation to your mics?
    – Do you have any gates or compressors on mics?
    …I saw the showfiles, but I didn’t had time yet to go through them…

    #47160
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Never high pitched.
    Speakers always in front of mics – I’m not completely stupid ๐Ÿ˜‰
    As of yesterday I completely reset every channels EQ to flat (apart from a hpf). No gates. No compressors (although I will start to use again shorlty). Also now only using one FX which is a reverb.

    #47161
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Thanks, now we can work on it… ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Never high pitched.

    Ok, room resonance, period. Any idea about the frequency range? Maybe pitching the HPFs little higher would help.

    Speakers always in front of mics โ€“ Iโ€™m not completely stupid

    sure, but you can’t imagine what I had seen in my life… ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Think you’re on the right direction. Not sure if reducing the overall volume is an option for your band, but in smaller rooms you should think about that as well.
    And if you’re using multiple mics try to find out if one of them is dominant in generating feedback. Using different type may help… But that’s getting pretty specific now…

    #47163
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    90% of rooms will have problems between 160-400. I usually start by pulling that range. 200-250 is culprit in just about every room. Then it moves up an octave.

    #47164
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    CK…

    I have a PDF about dealing with room resonances/standing waves. You are welcome to it. Just PM me a valid e-mail address and I’ll send it to you.

    DR
    (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain…)

    #47165
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Just post the link to the PDF
    so “everyone can read it”
    I’m sure a lot of ‘techs’ out there are watching reading this forum.
    The PDF link would help other newbies

    #47166
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    Just post the link to the PDF
    so โ€œeveryone can read itโ€
    Iโ€™m sure a lot of โ€˜techsโ€™ out there are watching reading this forum.
    The PDF link would help other newbies

    Sorry, I do not have a website. I’ll be happy to send it to anyone who requests it. To date I have probably sent it out to several hundred folk. It may have helped some of them…

    #47167
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Drop Box?
    If its not too big post it on here?
    ‘Sound is’ such a ‘personal and controversial subject’

    #47168
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Hi
    PM it me please and I’ll host it on here for everyone to access.
    This is one of my major gripes with this very basic Forum. No file/image hosting etc included for free.
    Its all very late 1990s.
    You can only just about quote previous posts. ๐Ÿ™‚

    #47171
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    …and attach up to one MBytes per post. This is a forum not a hosting service… ๐Ÿ˜‰

    #47172
    Profile photo of DoctorG
    DoctorG
    Participant

    Andreas,

    I’m sorry if I seemed to confuse the issue with my extended response. I started out saying that feedback is a complicated issue. It is perhaps impossible to solve a specific feedback problem without being in the room. I just tried to address most of the factors involved.

    Unless one understands the issues, it is partly luck when one solves a feedback problem, depending upon the specific circumstances. Of course, every feedback problem is a mix of mic/gain/speaker adjustments, but unless you say how to handle each of these factors, you haven’t said anything helpful. If you’ll read my instructions and suggestions carefully, you’ll find that I did address the question asked, and I did state that the vocalist was the last contributing element to be considered.

    Consider this: You can stop feedback by turning down the system gain. That says that the feedback at any frequency is dependent on the level of that frequency in the room. If the room tends to feedback at, say 10 kHz, a female vocalist is more likely to generate sound at that frequency than a baritone.

    If you’ll review the other suggestions in this thread, you’ll see that they are all “guesses” because they are not able to know the exact situation of the person having the feedback problem. Until the operator is able to get a feel for all the factors involved and then determine how each applies to his situation, he will struggle with the problem. He may fix the problem for this one situation, but what happens in the next situation?

    I’ve even heard listeners, even operators, say “I heard feedback,” when what they heard was reverb!

    No, we have not purchased our A&H yet, but we’re getting close. I realize that I did not confine my remarks to the limitations of the A&H QU. There’s a saying that goes something like this: “If you give a person a piece of bread, you may have solved his immediate hunger. But if you teach him how to make his own bread, you will help him feed himself and others, and lessen the chance that he will be hungry again.” I was just trying to help the operator “feed himself.”

    Again, I’m sorry if I only created confusion. However, the more one learns, the less confusion one will have. You’ll learn a lot more if you truly listen to what one has to say. Sometimes, what one says may seem to disagree with what you think you know, but listening will give you a broader perspective and sometimes correct erroneous or limited conceptions.

    #47173
    Profile photo of DoctorG
    DoctorG
    Participant

    avaen1,

    Hey, I like that hat! I also like your attitude – consider what someone has to say and see how it jibes with your experience.

    Just consider the conversation between DR and myself a discussion between two old codgers. We really are not enemies, just old guys with somewhat different types of experience and observations. If you see a point of disagreement between us, just perform an experiment that will tell you which is right. You will have learned something!

    For example, put an SM81 and an SM58 beside each other in a somewhat reverberant room. Connect them to your mixer and EQ them for maximum volume without feedback. Which mic tends to feed back at low frequencies the most? Which one tends to have more high-frequency feedback? Or is there no difference between them?

    What did you learn? If you choose to do this experiment, tell us what you learned.

    #47174
    Profile photo of DoctorG
    DoctorG
    Participant

    Dick,

    We certainly have different experiences in the audio field and seem to have formed different opinions! I became interested in electronics at the age of 10, when the typical circuit constructed by young boys was a crystal radio – remember those? As I worked toward my doctorate at Oak Ridge, I delved into electronics somewhat deeper, building my first hi-fi system from Heathkits, along with a tube-type color TV. I didn’t just follow the instructions, I also looked at the circuit diagram to better understand what I was building.

    I studied speaker design extensively and built a number of speakers over the years. In the 70’s my church needed a new mixer, so I built an 8-channel powered solid-state mixer from circuit boards that were available at the time. We were one of the first churches to have stereo sound.

    I’ve been singing since I was 10, mostly in church. Later, I sang in a couple of praise bands and designed sound systems for churches.

    As a scientist, I learned how to make critical observations and perform experiments to learn what I needed to know about a situation. When confronted with a problem, I tried to examine it from as many perspectives as possible. That experience carried over into my work as an audio technologist. Generally, I don’t tend to make statements that I have not somehow verified as accurate.

    Nevertheless, it is conceivable that I missed something along the way, and you may have also, that has resulted in us having differing opinions on some audio technology subjects. All I can suggest is that we try to see our disagreements from the other’s perspective and see if we need to do some experiments to decide where the truth lies. I hope that those who read our submissions will do the same, not just take sides in an argument that doesn’t really exist.

    #47175
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    Hi

    PM it me please and Iโ€™ll host it on here for everyone to access

    No can do. I cannot do attachments in PM’s just like I can’t do it here.

    The PDF is subject to periodic revisions and customization for specific individuals at various skill/experience levels, so I do it on a case by case basis. I do not care to have my work posted on the nintershnet, thank you, but if it will help you then you are welcome.

    All I need is a valid email address.

    DR

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