Ringing Out The Room – Channel or Overall PEQ?

[Dick ReesParticipant]

CK…

You’ll have to send files as Email attachments. You can’t post them here. You have my Email address, so try sending that way.

Don’t forget to add input gain adjustment to your to-do list. See the several posts on your kick drum resonance thread for reference.

Speaker height depends on the room, so it’s not an absolute. I like mine as high as I can get them to help even out front to back levels, but I don’t want them bouncing a lot of sound off the ceiling, either. So it’s a compromise. Let’s just say yo get them over the heads of the audience. BTW, I use some add-on tilters to angle my speakers down a bit. It helps.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[coffee_kingParticipant]

Try setting your mic input gain by PFL’ing the selected channel and setting the gain by the meter on the touch screen. I prefer peaks to be just slightly into the yellow. This is very likely 12dB lower than what you describe if I’m understanding your description correctly.

While it is true that it’s total system gain which determines GBF, if you’re setting your mics as hot as I think you are, you’ll have to run everything else after that “cooler” to make up for it. And if you set your mics hot, then try to set your channel and/or master faders at “unity”, you’ll be sending an extremely hot signal to your speakers, requiring you to decrease the speaker level to much less than the setting you’re now using.

Hi Dick
Yes, good point. I will try your input gain suggestions
Many thanks

[coffee_kingParticipant]

Hi All
Its been a while since I last posted anything so I thought I would give a bit of an update.

Ive not had any feedback issues recently and thought I’d list what I’d been doing recently to help others out there. (You could put that down to different types of venues, but hey only time will tell)

1) Ive given up on making the room feedback (For now)

2) Ive been using a set of headphones to check and somewhat EQ each channel before turning the PA speakers on. Ive found this to be possibly the best piece of advise Ive ever received. I can now hear if there are any issues clearly (Especially with drums) and try to sort before turning on the speakers.

3) Ive been using the PA mainly for vocals only. I try to get the vocals as loud as I can before I back them off and add in some extra instruments were needed so I know Ive got some headroom. Whenever I can, the backline of guitars dont go through the PA. Its mainly just kick, toms, keys and a bit of bass.

Note: The other day I had the vocals so loud (With no feedback) that it sounded STUPID and they were way too loud in the mix, so I turned them down 🙂

4) Ive been using a lot less input gain on every channel with it hardly even touching the yellow. I have had to turn the PA speakers up because of this (To about just gone 10 oclock) but all seems fine doing this.

5) Speaker height Ive kept with the bottom of the speaker just about at ear height.

6) Ive dropped the last two faders of the GEQ completely down to remove low end sludge.

7) Ive been enjoying using the HPF.

Thats about it really. Like I said Ive had no major issues recently, I’ve played a PVC marquee, a vinyl panelled marquee, a large pub with stage and all’s been OK.
So many thanks for everyones thoughts.

p.s. I decided to buy a DBX PA2 just to see exactly what it could do. What a load of rubbish. I couldnt even get through the “Wizard” set up as its got the worst UI ever. DBX support and forums are pathetic (“It doesnt matter if your speakers arnt listed/Just miss that part of the set up out”) I sent it back for a full refund.

[GCumbeeParticipant]

Glad you have improved things. It can take awhile.
Sorry about your experiences with the PA2. I have put in several as well as earlier models. For what they are they work fine for me. I never use the wizard. I just set them up my own way. I like the PA2 with iPad app. Makes it a lot easier. Looking forward to the new Venue 360 model. It offers a lot more that I can utilize.

[Anonymous]

Glad to hear that coffee_king! 🙂
Sound like are on the right track now.

Cheers
dave NZ

[zzzzzzrisParticipant]

Maybe you could have a research on the specific Yamaha MSR400 Manual and MSR800w Manual to better learn how to make the best use of your products. For more information, log onto Manualbirds.com.

[gillyParticipant]

Re proper speaker placement, is there a particular guide to this. We have speakers on stands (as we are renting a Cinema screen room and we have to set up and take down all our sound gear every Sunday) placed about a meter or two out in front of where the singers stand so as to minimize feedback. I would have assumed you just point the speaker fronts slightly off straight towards centre of room and not towards the side walls and placed as high on the stands as possible to try and project sound towards the middle or back row (as seats are tiered in cinema) as otherwise you will blast the people sitting in the front rows trying to receive a decent sound level at the back of room.

[gillyParticipant]

Doctor G said:
” Different vocalists tend to trigger different feedback frequencies, so you may need to re-EQ mics for different vocalists. ”

Dick you said the following:
Not true. Feedback is dependent on the critical distances within the signal path and manifests at different frequencies. The vocalist has literally nothing to do with it in the world of physics.

I would tend to agree with Doc, as in each source, whether they be a vocalist or an instrument, produces different levels of frequencies than others. And if the room characteristics (dimensions and wall covering types and shapes etc..) tends to enhance certain frequencies and that vocalist, or instrument, produces high levels of that particular frequency then surely if it exceeds the threshold for feedback then this will cause feedback ?

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