Reverb Post Fader

[DanZParticipant]

Hello,
Is it possible to have the reverb (FX1 aux) in post fader, but the fader to be considered is the fader or every mix????
Eg :
for the LR mix, the reverb send level is dependent on the voice (ch1) fader in the LR mix
for the MIX1 aux (IEM1), the reverb is dependent on the voice (ch1) fader in the MIX1 mix
for the MIX2 aux (IEM2), the reverb is dependent on the voice (ch1) fader in the MIX2 mix

I think it is very logical, as the reverb level on every IEM should not be dependent on how loud I want the voice on the main PA

Now, if I change the level of the voice for the PA, musicians complains that they get too much or not enough reverb

I my small analog yamaha mixer, if I put the fader at 0, I still have some reverb in the monitors, even if it is set post fader

Possible or not in the QU-PAC?
Regards,
Dan

[MarkPAmanParticipant]

No. I don’t think what you describe is something I’ve seen on any desk.

For one effect on each voice, you could insert one FX unit on that channel and its level would then go up/down with the level in each mix, but you’d then need to use the wet/dry control for the FX level to FOH, and that would still change the monitor sound.

Best solution is probably to use a different FX unit (on a different send) for FOH & monitors. Set monitors how they want it in the sound check (something shorter, but louder than you’re putting in FOH is often better), and then you can change FOH as you want.

[DanZParticipant]

For the second solution, if the FX2 send is post fader, we still have the same problem, no?
If it is prefader, it is not easy … when a musician want more volume, i need to readjust again the reverb FX2 send together…

Strange no one had this idea, to set the fx postfader to the current mix

[Mike CParticipant]

Splitting the needed channels, one channel is the for the main mix and the other is for monitors, that kind of creates a monitor mixer within the same mixer but it eats up a lot of channels.

How many channels are you running, how many channels do you need to separate the reverb mix between mains and monitors, are you using a remote stage box?

You can split the channels with an XLR Y cable or if you are using a stage box you can do the channel splits in the stage box patching.

[Chris93Participant]

The reason that isn’t possible is that a signal can only have one level at a time. The reverb operates by receiving one signal from the send mix, turning that signal into reverb, and outputting it to the return channels. The level at the output is proportional to the level at the input.

In order to have it work as you describe you would therefore need to have one instance of the FX unit per mix, rather than just the one instance you actually have.

Depending on how post fade sends are implemented internally I wonder if it may be possible to set it “post fade” from something other than the LR mix… If it’s literally tapped from the signal path at a point after the fader as it would be in an analogue console then it would be difficult to change, but if it’s done “virtually” with something like…

if postfade == true

{

LevelToMixX = Send_Fader_LevelX + LR_Fader_Level;

}

else

{

LeveltoMixX = Send_Fader_LevelX;

}

…which is how I imagine the DCAs work, then allowing a substitution of the “+…” variable to a different mix could do what you want, if only for that one mix. I’m sure the actual code is orders of magnitude more complex though.

What I do in practice is to dedicate an FX unit to monitors, as using the same as for FOH has the problems you’ve experienced. I call it “MonFX” and set it as a pre-fade send, same as the monitor mixes. If someone wants reverb on something in their monitors I send that channel to MonFX and add MonFX to their mix, of course any changes to the dry signal in their monitor need to be followed with changes to the level of that signal in the MonFX mix. This does mean that everyone has the same “reverb mix”, but at least it’s fully independent of FOH mix changes. The next step would be a MonFX per mix, but in a monitors-from-FOH size gig it’s an acceptable compromise.

Chris

[SRDParticipant]

Do the FX Return faders not set the levels of reverb in LR and each mix individually (When post fader is selected)?

[Chris93Participant]

They do. DanZ is wanting to be able to have a channel routed to the LR, to a monitor mix, and to a reverb “post-fade” (meaning post send level in that mix) but without LR fader changes affecting the reverb levels in the monitors. He only wants reverb levels in the monitors to change in accordance with send level changes within that particular monitor mix, without this affecting the LR mix. ie. +3dB vocal 1 in mix 1 automatically = +3dB vocal 1 reverb in mix 1, while simultaneously having -1dB vocal 1 in LR automatically = -1dB vocal 1 reverb in LR. Obviously the second part is how it does work, but it couldn’t happen at the same time as the first part even in theory. He’s wanting “post fade FX” per monitor mix in the same way as you have post fade FX in the LR, except with post fade meaning “post send level”. Making that happen needs an FX unit per FX type per mix.

You can do it manually by changing the return levels (and you’d want it pre-fade so LR changes didn’t change the monitors), but that only holds for the example of one channel , as the mix of different channels within the reverb is still set by whatever the mix is in the send. ie. if mix 1 doesn’t have any vocal 2 in it “post send level” would imply that it also wouldn’t have any vocal 2 reverb, the trouble is that is also implies that if someone else on mix 2 does want vocal 2, they’ll be able to have reverb, while not hearing any reverb of vocal 1 if they don’t have vocal 1 in their mix. The same FX unit would have to be producing reverb of vocal 1 and not producing any reverb of vocal 2, while simultaneously doing exactly the opposite.

Chris

[SRDParticipant]

Looking at the System Block Diagram it looks to me like the ‘Pre’ and ‘Post’ fader assignments (per mix) are with respect to the fader in the FX Returns section, not the LR.

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