QU16 & external FX w/Cubase, not working!

Forums Forums Qu Forums Qu DAW integration QU16 & external FX w/Cubase, not working!

This topic contains 14 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of anthony1974 anthony1974 11 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #92799
    Profile photo of anthony1974
    anthony1974
    Participant

    Hi folks,

    Another FX question!

    I’ve just been looking at this page for tips on routing in USB to the DAW: http://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/1142

    I’ve also followed the steps on this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-N-9AGlrXk

    I’m not getting any signal through the FX though. Please see the image attached. I’ve attemptd to route the stereo mixes 5/6, & 7/8 to be the sends for the external fx, and use ST1/ST2 for the returns. Can anyone see what I am doing wrong here, or advise if this is even possible?

    TIA

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    #92812
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    did you switched the USB source?

    #92816
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @anthony1974

    my looking at the block diagram makes me wonder if it is possible.
    could be, but the documentation does not make me think so.
    That said, the documentation omits many things or glosses over them expecting us to infer what was said.

    #92823
    Profile photo of anthony1974
    anthony1974
    Participant

    @steffen R

    I have a USB channel routed into my desk as per the screenshot attached.

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    #92826
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    anthony1974
    Participant

    @volounteer,

    Yes I agree, I finally got to have a thorough read of the manual and study the block diagram but the manual as you say isn;t 100% clear on a few things.

    I searched a lot on the internet and found this post on another thread: https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/recording-with-effects-and-processing-using-qu-16#post-48813

    So that, for some reason made me think it is possible.

    I’ve got a Lexicon PCM92 that I really like the reverbs on and I really want to get it linked up. Some of the weirder fx on it are part of the songs I’ve been writing.

    I guess I need to reach out to A&H Tech Support? Which is the correct/best/fastest way to do that email or phone?

    #92827
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    where you want to integrate the Lexicon? Cubase or QU?

    on the screenshot you have enabled USB on ST3 that is USB stream 23/24 I think
    that’s written in the manual somwhere
    so if Cubase is sending audio on channel 1 and 2 this is your problem

    The QU has no possibility to use external insert processing,
    but send processing is easy to implement for up to 7 FX
    but it costs mixes, outputs and inputs

    and the QU is no universal usable computer audio interface,
    it is a mixing desk that is designed to use the DAW as multitrack recording and playback device

    #92828
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @anthony1974

    the Qu has a library of fx that you CAN use.
    They should have a reverb that is good enough even if not the perfection you want.

    I have no idea how to get tech support. I would start with my dealer.
    If you want AH directly then google for tech support and site: https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/
    and you should find some info on reaching them.

    #92830
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    how about reading the thread A&H Technical Support

    Support

    this is pinned to every forum in here… really
    and it’s there since 6 years

    and Nicola, Keith, Nicole and all the others write sometimes the address in their answers @volounteer you should have seen this already

    #92832
    Profile photo of anthony1974
    anthony1974
    Participant

    @steffen R

    Yep I found that also and am in the middle of submitting a ticket.

    Thanks.

    #92833
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    @anthony1974

    did you checked your Cubase settings?

    #92834
    Profile photo of anthony1974
    anthony1974
    Participant

    Hi Steffen,

    Yep, been through the steps several times, and noting each time. Seems like it should work but I’ve contacted A&H tech support and will also contact Steinberg just in case I am missing something with that element of the set up.

    Many thanks for your help and suggestions.

    #92835
    Profile photo of anthony1974
    anthony1974
    Participant

    @volounteer,

    Thanks for your help and suggestions – I’ve contacted support now as per my message to Steffen above.

    I’m quite adamant about the way I work to the point of obstinacy so its just a matter of how much time it takes to get to what I want or a near compromise.

    #92836
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @anthony1974

    perfection is not possible.

    too many people think if they just do one more tweak then it will be more better

    the problem is that we all and our equipment have a maximum quality we can achieve especially if there is a deadline
    at some point more changes just make things different not better
    we all need to know and accept when we have gotten to that point

    if this is just for you , and you have the time money and will to do it, then keep trying to improve it better
    but if this is for an audience, you have to realize that they just dont care.
    good enough is good enough and the quest for perfection goes over their heads with a big swoosh.

    i have seen our MD and our A1 doing endless fiddling during a performance to get things ‘perfect’
    i told them nobody in the audience cares.
    no one has ever said we need more EQ or it would be better with some reverb, or some fx from left field.
    what they do say it is too loud – by those complaining about the music peaks
    and they do say that it is too softe – by those complaining about the pastors voice

    Too many people think the loudness is perfect as they split the complaints in half
    the truth is their sound sux and they need to compress the DR

    #92842
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    Hi @anthony1974,

    I have just got back to you on the support system, but as the information could be useful to other users who happen upon the thread I’ll pop it here too.

    Firstly, be aware that as you are looping back through multiple AD and DA conversions, as well as at least two USB streams (from DAW to Qu and from Qu to DAW) there will be a relatively high latency.
    In post production this latency shouldn’t cause any issue as long as you make allowances for it, either with compensation or manually shifting any ‘re-recorded’ tracks.
    It could be a problem when tracking and monitoring with external FX when making a live recording or overdubbing though. For this reason, we would always recommend using the internal FX for tracking/record monitoring, then incorporate any external units during the mix.
    I noticed that you were attempting to ‘ping’ for latency compensation though, so are probably aware of all this!

    It’s also worth mentioning that there are quite a few points here where you could introduce a feedback loop. To avoid this, trace the signal path carefully and make sure you don’t do things like monitor a live input in Cubase that gets sent out to the Qu which then goes straight back into that live channel in Cubase.

    So it’s probably best to break the routing of the whole setup into parts.

    Live input to DAW:

    Once your inputs are set up (connection/preamp/processing/monitoring), go to the ‘Setup > I/O Patch > USB Audio’ screen to choose what you send out from the Qu to the DAW.
    Personally I like to use ‘Insert Sends’ when tracking in a studio setup, as it allows you to use the input channel processing for the monitoring (through mixes or direct outs to a ME system) without affecting what’s being recorded. It’s totally up to you though, and many engineers like to print all processing.
    Whichever you choose, the numbers above each ‘box’ represent the USB channel your DAW will receive the channels from, so if you set box 4 to ‘ST2 R’, then to record ST2 R into your DAW you would record input 4 from the Qu’s USB interface.

    DAW to Qu:

    The USB return routing at the Qu end is fixed to avoid extra patching, as this can all be taken care of at the DAW end.
    Send out from your DAW to USB channel 7 for example, and it will appear on the USB-B input for channel 7.
    The Qu-16 and Qu-24 can have individual USB signals patched to all mono channels and then the stereo channels follow on too. For the Qu-32, Qu-Pac and Qu-SB you can patch to all 32 mono channels.
    So for your setup, you could create a bus in the DAW that only outputs to a single, or stereo (odd even) pair of channels. You then just need to switch those channels to their USB-B input on the Qu in the ‘Processing > Preamp > Source (Fn)’ screen and they are now your USB returns from the DAW.

    Return channels to outputs:

    You will need to get the USB returns to output sockets using mixes (as you have suggested with stereo mixes 5/6 and 7/8 and Steffen mentioned too).
    To avoid accidentally sending anything other than your USB return to a mix, select it (Blue Mix key then Sel key on master fader strip), go to the ‘Routing’ screen and set Assign to ‘All Off’.
    [quick method to toggle all assignments to mix – Blue Mix key, hold ‘Assign’ key on surface, press Sel key on master fader strip]
    Now, still in the routing screen, assign only the USB returns to that mix by selecting the USB return channel/s, going to the ‘Mix Sends’ tab and switching the send to your chosen mix to ‘On’.
    [quick method to toggle individual assignments to mix – Blue Mix key, hold ‘Assign’ key on surface, press Sel key on individual channels]
    Finally, play back from your DAW, raise the level of your USB return and mix channel (master send) and you should have just the signal from the DAW appearing at your chosen mix outputs.

    External FX unit back to DAW:

    This will work in exactly the same way as getting live inputs to the DAW.
    Connect the unit to the Qu, setup the channel, then ensure you have it patched to a USB channel.
    Record that USB channel in your DAW.

    Hope this helps!
    Cheers,

    Keith.

    #92853
    Profile photo of anthony1974
    anthony1974
    Participant

    @KeithJ A&H,

    Thanks so much for a super quick response! I wasn’t expecting to hear back till next week! I’ll take my time to work through what you’ve written here and report back, sounds promising!

    Many thanks!

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