Qu preamps vs AR preamps

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Andreas Andreas 6 years ago.

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  • #47812
    Profile photo of David J.
    David J.
    Participant

    I would like to know if the Q16 preamps are the same that AR preamps. Dealer says me yes, but I check that AR noise in the same gain is lower than Qu preamps. It’s normal? Frequencies response is maybe different in recording. Note that I check with same cable and same mic direct to preamps

    Difference are in AD converters or preamps?

    Thanks!

    #47817
    Profile photo of mervaka
    mervaka
    Participant

    AR has a pad, Qu does not. I can say that much with confidence..

    #47818
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    …and the AR originates from the GLD series, not sure the Qu has same preamps as the GLD… 😉
    Anyway, did you check for the same reference level? Never observed an issue with noise on the inputs (both Qu and AR) and maybe just the gain numbers do not match, interesting parameter would be signal to noise ratio not necessarily reading the same number.

    #47819
    Profile photo of David J.
    David J.
    Participant

    I’m agree, maybe gain is not the match. I don’t said that Qu preamp is noiseless than AR, I mean, in maxium gain, Qu metering shows more noise.

    Maybe allen&heath staff can say if are same preamps or not.

    cheers

    #47828
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    the AR originates from the GLD era series

    Good question!
    I guess then also question would also be:

    “are the GLD pre-amps the same as the iLive pre-amps?”

    However, now you have me wondering about the AR/QU pres.
    The QU originated what seems like quite a few years after the GLD and I guess rather than redesigning a new stage box they adapted the technology?

    I have not done an A/B between the AR and QU mic pre-amps.

    #47830
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    The QU originated what seems like quite a few years after the GLD and I guess rather than redesigning a new stage box they adapted the technology?

    or they decided that other circuits are available which are superior or have a lower price tag… As already mentioned, the AR has a pad, the Qu preamps provide that range without it. So circuits are not comparable.

    Anyway, just gave it a try and could not examine a significant different. My setup was:
    – SigGen on Mix 7/8
    – Mix7 routed to Ch24 via AR2412
    – Mix8 routed to Ch23 locally
    – SigGen on 0dB
    – Mix7/8 send at unity
    – Input gain 0dB (pad active on AR)

    Readout on local channel is some 1dB higher than what I got via dSnake, both metering around 0dB.

    Setting SigGen to -60dB, setting both input gains to +60dB (max amplification, pad disabled on AR) again result in 0dB readout.
    Amplification (+60dB) of noise with SigGen switched off seems to be similar as well.

    Can’t see a significant difference when checking the meters, didn’t listen to the sound, though.

    #47833
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Well fab 🙂
    Thankyou for that
    OK so the ins & outs are the same.

    Now what about the sound?
    All mics have a flavour or *a sound*
    Maybe someone can chirp in if they know both the AR & QU chip-set A/D convertors?
    I have used the QU in a very loud environment via the AR (outside) and it sounded fantastic.
    Before that it was always the GL series of which I had to fight to get that same sound.
    Maybe if I get time today I’ll AB them on a few different mics?
    Or look at the specs between the 2 units?

    #47834
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Now what about the sound?

    Not sure what you want to hear from me… 😉
    I still doubt that any state of the art input stage from nowaday digital consoles add significant amounts of color to your input. I believe one will hear differences since they’re expected to exist. Performing a blind test would help, but requires a proper conditions.
    Of course you will measure (and possibly hear) differences, caused by different source impedances (cables, microphones etc.), but they easily should be EQued out, if really required.
    My observed drop of ~1dB from the dSnake may be caused by a really lengthy cable I had to run to reach the box.
    Comparing the GLD with the Qu is similar like comparing cars from different epoches. They will differ, but who is willing to say which one is “better”?

    But if you insist, I can do a FFT plot from both local and dSnake inputs, not expecting big differences…

    #47835
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    The ADC shouldn’t be adding colour, the preamp will be.

    #47836
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    apologies I meant the pre-amp chipset
    They are probably the same?
    However from past experience using the ZedR16 and GSR24m which supposedly sounded or had the same Pre in them, the final main output was quite remarkably different in a live sound situation.

    #47837
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    They are probably the same?

    Maybe between GLD and AR boxes, I’m pretty sure Qu preamps do differ since they do not need a pad for that large gain range.
    And since you’re pointing out live sound with analog desks, don’t forget the color added by lengthy analog snakes on both input and output depending on impedance matching and cable quality.

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