QU-drive stereo playback digital splat at end of file

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This topic contains 35 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Dick Rees Dick Rees 4 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 36 total)
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  • #62029
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    Andreas: Thanks for your reply. If there is a requirement to provide files for playback on a QU of 512 Byte multiples, shouldn’t that be mentioned in the user manual? I’ve had a good look through my SSL Soundscape DAW and my Cubase Elements 9 DAW and I can find no option in either to force the DAW to create mix-down files of 512 Byte multiple size. Can you recomend a DAW to me that would enable me to make QU compliant files? FYI files from Soundscape are BWF, but Cubase can be WAV or BWF. I’ve used the Soundscape DAW in one incarnation or another since the early 1990s and never heard any mention of additional data being added to their BWF mix-down files. I’ve produced a few audio recordings on this system that have ended up (after mastering) as commercial CD’s and again have never had to concern myself with files that did or didn’t conform to size multiples of 512 Bytes.
    The files I used in my latest test from my Soundscape DAW are temporally located here –

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tbhar2r0j1dno6i/AADhCkRnd0uJsE18wnzqzR06a?dl=0

    Four of them are created in full seconds and include the letter “y” in the name the other four are not in full second duration (not that that seems to make any difference as it turns out). I’d be very interested to know how you get on with them. Any chance you could provide me with a few files that DON’T go splat at the end? It might help me confirm if I have a fault with my QU.

    #62031
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Thanks, I’ll check.
    The 512 Byte thing is just a guess, any WAV player should be able to play files of arbitrary length (in terms of samples).

    #62036
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    Matt…

    Interesting problem, one which I won’t have as I do not use DAW in my work, only occasionally the simple Audacity program for talent show track cropping.

    Realistically, though, I would not expect a manufacturer to spend a significant amount of their engineers paid time to try and head off all the possible consequences of dealing with third party devices and programs where there are no existing industry standards.

    The way things seem to work now with software based systems is to field user reports and deal with substantive issues as deemed necessary. As such, certain third party problems may have a lower priority for obvious practical reasons. In such cases, patience is your prime asset.

    Sorry you’re having a problem with your DAW files, but thanks for posting your investigations and raising community awareness. I’m learning plenty from what you and Andreas are going through.

    #62038
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Well, its not an issue with the files, they are pretty ok. I’ve experimented with the “02 f 44 24.WAV” only and noticed a decent noise at the and, so I added some pure silence. Interestingly this makes things even more worse. While the original file played well, the one with added silence makes a huge noise at the end. Wow…
    I’ll try to investigate further next days, currently I’m low in time…

    #62065
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    Andreas, I had previously (on another occasion) created the 4 files (16/24 + 44.1/48 WAV file combinations) through a mixer that was totally muted, in and out – I assume that’s what you’re referring to as “pure silence”? I found it has no bearing on the outcome whether there is audible sound on the file or not. I believe it’s independent of that. Not sure why I included audio in the files this time? Maybe just so I knew I was listening to the audible output of the QU-drive during replay…..
    If you get a chance I would be very interested in knowing how you get on playing all eight files in a “repeat all” loop, and then if you get the same result (exactly) using different thumb drives. I did, which as I’ve said before adds an interesting degree of complexity to understanding the likely cause of this “problem”.

    #62066
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    Thanks for those comments Dick, whilst I agree entirely with the point you make, I’m not convinced it applies to this situation. To clarify – I’m experiencing a “fault like” condition with the mixer in terms of it’s ability to replay WAV files in the manner that the manufacturer says it should. As a result I’m looking for a) a statement of known fault condition (if I’m not alone with this problem) b) a solution (tell me which thumb drive to use and which DAW and which settings to use and I’ll do that) and c) an explanation of why the “fault” occurs (I may or may not be able to understand the explanation, but start by giving me the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming it’s beyond me to understand).
    So rather than me asking A&H to make my third party software work with their mixer, I’m asking them to tell me how to create a WAV file that will replay successfully. Which DAW would they like me to use, which USB stick should I use. There’s a list of tried and tested USB sticks that should work with QU drive, but what about a list of software that will create a successfully repayable WAV file?
    I think that makes this different to the point you have made. I’m trying to get the mixer to do something that the user manual says it should do. If there are conditions required to how the mixer can do those things, it should be stated in the manual, or we should be subsequently informed. A statement, a solution or an explanation – one of those things is required IMHO.

    #62067
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    Hmmm….. I did mention that I had Soundscape and Cubase DAWs, but it may be that I didn’t do enough testing with the Cubase DAW before posting here. I just now tried a number of mix-down exports from Cubase from a 24/48 project to the four sample rate/bit depth combinations with and without audio and I couldn’t get the resulting files to fault on QU-drive replay using three different model thumb drives! Cubase allows a few choices for WAV file export including adding or excluding the Broadcast Wave Chunk, inserting or not the iXML chunk and also or not to use the Wave extensible format. I tried WAV with and without the BWF chunk and it made no difference to replay – as I say I couldn’t get it to fault at this stage. Soundscape only allows BWF file export, so I can’t tweak anything there (other than bit/sample) The solution may be looming for me with the use of Cubase, but it’s a bit annoying with a “lifetime” of work in the Soundscape DAW. I shall continue to test. This doesn’t change the fact that there’s something going on with compatibility out there as others have reported that needs to be understood and made known widely – maybe Andreas will uncover it in the files I have posted?

    #62073
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    Matt…

    Have you filed a trouble ticket with A&H Support?

    #62074
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    I’d stick with 48kHz. In the rare situation I’ve used QuDrive for playback I never had any issue that way. I really doubt that the trouble its caused by the application, since even simple “undecorated” WAV files produced with the plain old CoolEdit do fail at 44.1kHz.

    #62080
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    Dick, I’m assuming that A&H people keep an eye on this forum and so I was expecting someone to pop up with the cause and solution for me fairly quickly when I started this thread. I had been surprised that I couldn’t find any reference to the issue when I searched the forum for it. It’s still surprising to me – maybe very few people have a use for the USB replay facility? It’s very useful to me and I’m going to keep on using it regardless, but I’d really prefer it to work without “fault”. I’m interested to know what experiences others have had. I’ll just see where we end up with this thread and then contact support directly if required.

    #62082
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    I still prefer some external player for background music for several reasons. First of all its better accessible and normally comes with playlist support. Second there is no need to convert playbacks into WAV. But, at least for me, the major reason to not go that way is that my QuDrive is used for backup-recording (primary recording goes to DAW).

    #62085
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    Andreas, what I seem to have now is a DAW that produces incompatible files and a DAW that doesn’t. That’s what it looks like today. Each time I create test files, I make up the four possible combinations – 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 and 48/24. As I read in the manual, those four combinations should work. For reasons that I don’t understand the BWF files that I create from my Soundscape DAW are incompatible with QU-drive. When I loop-play the four files, splats occur in the same place each time. When I try the same four files copied onto different thumb-drives I get splats in different places from drive to drive, but always in the same place on each drive as it loops. The same four types of file (in WAV or BWF format), when created in Cubase and played back on the same thumb drives (as of today) are playing back without fault – none whatsoever. That has to be of interest to us particularly if we assume that there’s nothing wrong with my Soundscape DAW. BTW these same files, play back fine in other software players without hiccup or splats. Don’t forget that another QU-24 in the shop I bought from replicated the same fault when I took my mixer in for comparative testing and splats occurred on my unit and there’s with WAV files the guys in the shop supplied as well.

    My solutions so far include – continue to create play-back WAV files with a three minute silent tail, so that I never (at a gig) get to the end of a file (I’d always be on to the next file in less than three minutes), or create files from my Cubase DAW, which currently seem to playback without fault. They’re both not my first preference, but I can work with that if required. Trouble is, at this stage, we haven’t uncovered anything that might point conclusively to the cause. If others in the future find they are experiencing this fault, no one will be able to help them unless we identify the cause.

    #62086
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Have you (and you might have done I haven’t spotted them) uploaded your sample files?

    We can run through our desks and see if we get anything – and A&H could grab them and see if there is anything interesting in the data…

    #62087
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    [XAP]Bob, I’ve got a few files, some of which cause splats here –

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tbhar2r0j1dno6i/AADhCkRnd0uJsE18wnzqzR06a?dl=0

    If you could put them on a “repeat all” loop and note which files splat at the end, that would be of interest.

    #62088
    Profile photo of MattFog
    MattFog
    Participant

    Andreas, as you mention playback support, I note that my QU-drive doesn’t support basic alpha numeric file ordering. It seems to conform to “date created” order instead. Adding a “01” numeric to the front of a WAV file name doesn’t cause it to rearrange to numeric order and Alphabetical order is ignored too. When the band has decided on the set list, I have to go re-export the WAV files from the DAW in the order that we want to play them on the night in order to be able to go next, next, next….. again, is that normal function?

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