QU-32 to Camera Sound Difference

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This topic contains 50 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of volounteer volounteer 3 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 51 total)
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  • #96592
    Profile photo of Deltoran
    Deltoran
    Participant

    The camera is set to record only a single input; on the camera’s screen both input meters are set to input 1 and both are showing audio signal.

    All the channels on the mixer have panning set to center. There is a difference in volume on the camera but I assume that’s just due to the ‘Headphone volume’ setting on the camera. What is more concerning to me is that the sound quality and the various levels in the actual mix sound different on the camera compared to the mixer. If they aren’t the same, the changes I make on the mixer are pointless. Do you think I should try to connect a second XLR to input 2 and switch the camera to stereo or does it not make any difference since the panning is centered?

    One additional thing I’m wondering: What should the Mix sends be set to, pre or post? I’m curious if perhaps that’s why I’m getting a sound difference.

    #96593
    Profile photo of garyh
    garyh
    Participant

    When you PAFL mix 7/8 on the board, you should be hearing on the headphones the exact same sound as you would hear if you attach the headphones to the camera and monitor from there. Are you using the same headphones or different ones?

    #96594
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    Try using two lines to the camera just as a test even though it’s still mono
    both audio tracks on the camera with have audio.

    Just to be clear, on the mixer you are PAFl’ing mix 7 – 8 and not the main mix?

    As for the mix being pre or post fade there is not really one correct answer, it depends
    how you want to control the mix.

    In post fade the mix will track along with the level changes you make for the main LR mix. Once you find the relative balance for the live stream mix it will follow along
    with what you do on the main mix as in if you turn up a vocal solo for the main mix
    it will also turn up on the live stream mix.
    That set up is a good compromise when you only have one person running sound.

    A pre fade mix will not follow any changes you make to the main LR mix, so if you turn
    up that vocal solo for the main mix it will still be too low on the live stream mix.
    To make pre fade aux mix work you will need a second person who is monitoring that mix
    either with good isolation headphones or in another room with a monitor and mixing the the live stream mix 7 – 8 levels remotely with an iPad.
    Keep in mind if someone is mixing remotely they can only really control the mix levels
    all of the channel processing will/could effect the main LR mix, there are a few ways around that is you have open channels available, but that’s another topic.

    #96598
    Profile photo of Deltoran
    Deltoran
    Participant

    I figured I was supposed to be hearing the same sound when I connect to the mixer as well as the camera…that’s the crux of my problem. I am using the same headphones.

    Yes, PAFLing mix 7-8, not the LR (house) mix. We’re set to Pre-fade which seems right after reading what Mike C wrote. We want our house (LR) mix to be different than our recording/livestream mix (7-8). I’m just trying to figure out why that 7-8 mix which goes to the camera sounds different on the camera than it does from the board. Could it be some sort of audio encoding issue with the camera? I’ll try using the two XLR lines going to the camera, hopefully that will help.

    #96599
    Profile photo of garyh
    garyh
    Participant

    You really should use both XLR inputs and switch to stereo on the camera. Then you can pan the channels in the mix for a more pleasant result. We do this for our church service and pan the channels to approximately the same place they are on screen.

    We set up a monitoring station in a separate room behind the soundboard using 2 XLRs from the mix outs on the board, under the door, and to a Beringer Powerplay P1 and monitor with headphones. This isolates the stream mixer from the sound in the sanctuary. We use the Qu App on an ipad to adjust the levels and pans for the mix.

    #96600
    Profile photo of Deltoran
    Deltoran
    Participant

    We actually have a similar setup, we’ve got a ‘livestream’ booth where the livestream director runs the stream and normally somebody is supposed to adjust the 7-8 mix from the Ipad…but until recently, most of our tech staff didn’t even know what PAFL was…so they were waiting for the stream and listening from the computer instead of just listening direct to the mix. Since we’ve gone to recorded/edited segments instead of livestream due to Covid, we’ve got a camera guy and a sound guy (me) who monitor during recording direct from the mixer and camera since we’re not really using the sanctuary mix. We’re both using noise isolation headphones so we don’t really hear what’s going on outside. Again, the problem is what I hear from the board doesn’t match what one hears on the camera when playing back the recording. I’ll let everyone know how the two XLR lines work out. Probably better to have stereo sound.

    #96601
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @deltoran

    pls tell us exactly what the difference sounds like.

    why it matters that much for video would be a plus.
    most sound on utoob/facebook yada yada is not very good.

    if the sound you are going to put online is good when you listen in the pc why do you care if it matches the Qu exactly?

    #96651
    Profile photo of Deltoran
    Deltoran
    Participant

    I’ll give you an example of the sound difference and why it is a problem. A week ago, more like two now, we recorded a choral octet with piano. Prior to recording, we set up the mix and there was a good balance between the parts and the piano was at sufficient volume to support but not overpower the singers. Once all was said and done, I replayed the recording on the Camera and suddenly there were certain voice parts that stuck out that didn’t when we initially recorded. Also, the general tone sounded thinner and more muted and the piano was too loud and would consistently overpower the singers.

    I expect that the sound will be different when it’s streamed over the internet, which is why it matters that we get a good original…it’s hard for me to generate a good product if the changes I make on the mixer don’t translate to the camera/recording.

    #96653
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @deltoran

    It might be easier for you to record to a DAW , perhaps via local Qu drive, and do your editing with the DAW then merge that file with the video and forget any audio via the camera itself.

    However when you decide to livestream you will need to have it working right.

    Have you tried using both channels to both xlr inputs yet?
    Is the sound issue still the same when you do that?
    Recording an octet with piano would be spread around at least somewhat in the stereo field so only one cable would have to make it sound different in the camera. With one channel this is looking like the culprit to me.

    Are you sure there is no EQ anywhere including the camera which could be causing a problem?

    As to different sound when you post online, we are now having a similar problem.
    The sound used to be natural but lately the pastor sounds like he was breathing helium.
    I went into my pc and tweaked the EQ there and now it sounds much better but still a tiny bit off.
    Used one of the many presets and it turned out one for rock music worked best!
    That was a straight line in the middle, with ends flattening off some, resulting in changing levels of frequencies from +9 at 100 cps down to -8 at 16000.

    I am suspecting something in SLOBS or the way the video team is tweaking things for this anomaly.

    So you might want to also check the sound on the internet and then pretweak to undo that change when you edit in the DAW.
    Problem may be if you post to different sites they may still all sound different.

    #96663
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    Have you confirmed in one way or another that what is coming out of the cable that would be feeding the camera
    sounds good/correct?

    The recording of audio on the camera would not change the mix balance, maybe level, maybe tonality, but not the mix balance
    like making the piano overpower the vocals.

    If you have an open mono mix 1 through 4 try one of those.

    #96664
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    Recording an octet with piano would be spread around at least somewhat in the stereo field so only one cable would have to make it sound different in the camera. With one channel this is looking like the culprit to me.

    ……..Only if the piano input or inputs were panned on the mix.
    He said all the sends to mix 7 – 8 were panned straight up center that would the outputs 7-8 the same with
    no stereo image/field.

    It’s a long shot but possible that a mic or two are wired with pin 2 & 3 swapped at one end and when those channels would be combined with input channels from the same source would get some strange phase cancellation.
    If that were the case though I would think you should be hearing that at the board.

    #96678
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mikec

    true in theory

    now their set up may be different, but in ours there is always some mike leakage so time delays would create differences in the two channels so if you only listened to one channel not both together you would not hear the same thing.

    do we know that the mikes were actually all panned center and somebody else did not pan them to appear in the stereo field in relation to where they were on stage? doing that and using both xlr inputs just seems more logical to me than only using one side of the stereo pair on mix78 out.

    #96688
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    now their set up may be different, but in ours there is always some mike leakage so time delays would create differences in the two channels so if you only listened to one channel not both together you would not hear the same thing.

    Yes mic leakage can cause phase issues but going by his information all channels panned to center so there is no stereo image being created.

    Yes try using both outputs to feed the camera and set the camera to record in stereo even though with the mix sends all panned to center it will be dual mono. Maybe the camera is doing something strange when set to mono audio recording.

    Maybe yet there is a chance that when monitoring the mix at the board what there hearing in the headphones is being influenced by some other mix source.

    #96689
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    @deltoran

    Maybe post a short clip of board recorded audio from mix 7 – 8 and a clip of the same
    audio pulled from the camera recording.
    Or post them somewhere and let up know the links.

    Also just to double check, are you taking the mix audio out directly from the mix outs
    on the board or from a matrix output?

    #96694
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mikec

    You are right.
    I was stuck on thinking how I always do stereo and keep forgetting that AH does it differently.

    For sure they should just connect both cables and see if the problem goes away.

    If not then we at least have limited the problem some.
    Pretty sure he said mix78 out but a matrix would change things if they are doing that.

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