QU-32 to Camera Sound Difference

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This topic contains 50 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of volounteer volounteer 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #96503
    Profile photo of Deltoran
    Deltoran
    Participant

    First of all, let me preface this post with the ‘I am an amateur’ tag:

    Due to COVID, my church is currently recording video and audio segments to make up our worship services and then editing them together. Our QU-32 mixer is plugged into a digital camera via XLR cable to one of the camera inputs, allowing us to send the audio received by the board to the camera.

    The problem I’m having is that I’ll set a nice mix up for whatever we’re recording and when I listen through the PAFL it sounds lovely, but it doesn’t sound the same on the recording from the camera. I assume the channels and mix are set to post-fader because we get our fx and volume changes on the camera, but it seems that the mix still doesn’t come out quite right. Certain parts stick out more or less on the recording than when listening from the board. Any suggestions on how I might go about making the mixer listen and camera recording sound the same would be helpful. Thanks.

    #96504
    Profile photo of garyh
    garyh
    Participant

    Make sure the camera doesn’t have AGC (Auto Gain Control) for the audio inputs turned on.

    #96509
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @deltoran

    To post on a web site
    We record the audio to CD firston its own independent output
    XFR file to PC
    Edit in DAW

    Simultaneouly we Record video on sd card
    when done xfr file to PC
    Combine audio and video with adobe or other program

    Be sure the mike in the camera is OFF and also reduce its gain to -80 or however low your camera allows
    But if you have it on AGC is irrelevant. Just use it as a guide to line up the CD file with the real audio.

    Livestreaming we feed a mix to an audio interface to the pc with SLOBS
    Simultaneously feed video to pc
    slobs does its thing
    transmitted live to AM/FM and livestream

    #96517
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    @deltoran

    As an additional point you should check is the cabeling,
    since XLR is symmetrical and consumer cameras sometimes have no symmetrical conections avaiable…

    but it’s more likely that the AGC is causing your problem

    #96519
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    To what Steffen was getting at, does you camera actually have an XLR input connection or is it just a 3.5mm mini jack?

    Camera AGC should be turned off.

    If your camera is a more pro’ish model with XLR audio inputs there will be some level controls and input selections.
    The input should be set to line level.

    What mix are you using to feed the camera?

    #96521
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    folks,

    a bigger issue is that the camera mike in is a 3.5 TRS for a MIKE and the Qu is feeding it LINE levels.
    you absolutely have to have the AGC on or the signal will totally distort in the camera.

    The best way is to feed the audio from Qu to the PC via an audio interface.
    Turn the camera mike off or at least as down as far as it can be turned.

    Then edit the audio and video together in adobe or similar program.
    Use adobe (or a DAW first )to edit and tweak the sound as the DR is probably way too wide and viewers wont hear all the words.

    The camera mike is intended to help align the good recording from the Qu not to replace it,
    although many people do try to use the camera mike as the main sound source.

    #96523
    Profile photo of Deltoran
    Deltoran
    Participant

    Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I’ll be taking a look at the settings today and hopefully it’s just as simple as AGC and or line level.

    Just to clear a few things up: the camera does have two XLR inputs on the side and the onboard microphone is off. I’ll update this thread after I do some testing.

    #96524
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @deltoran

    Your camera appears to be far better than many of us use. Pls let us know the model you chose.
    But it still has its own amplifer that might not be perfectly flat, or it may have its own EQ that needs fixing.
    Some may have settings to optimize voice or other sources that needs to be selected too.

    Your headphones could be the issue. They are rarely exactly the same as the speakers from the camera would indicate.

    #96528
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I’ll be taking a look at the settings today and hopefully it’s just as simple as AGC and or line level.

    Just to clear a few things up: the camera does have two XLR inputs on the side and the onboard microphone is off. I’ll update this thread after I do some testing.

    It sounds like your camera is crossing over into a pro camera model that includes XLR inputs.

    Turn off the AGC, make sure it is in line input mode an adjust the levels manually.

    #96529
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    a bigger issue is that the camera mike in is a 3.5 TRS for a MIKE and the Qu is feeding it LINE levels.
    you absolutely have to have the AGC on or the signal will totally distort in the camera.

    The AGC will not prevent the input from overloading on a mic level only camera that is getting hit a line level signal, at best it will take some of the “edge” off the distortion during the recording process.

    Also 3.5mm TRS stereo mic inputs on a camera can not be directly fed with a balanced line input with a straight through wired XLR to 3.5mm.

    With a proper interface in both level attenuation and converting to a single end unbalanced signal you can use effectively use a consumer level camera connected to a sound system.

    Here is a ready made such interface.
    Whirlwind camera adapter

    Here’s one that requires a little DIY wiring but works very well, you wire the mic out as unbalanced.
    RDL LM2

    Both are passive and provide transformer isolation.

    #96530
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mikec

    Sorry to tell you but our camera AGC absolutely handled the Qu line level fed into the mike input by the video team.
    We had them turn the gain on the mike as far down as possible.

    I admit that I was then shocked as much as you should be now because I did not think it could do it.
    BUT IT DID!!

    We now have a better approach with feeding the Qu to the PC via an audio interface but in a pinch one could turn the gain way down and the let the AGC do its thing. No guarantee that every camera will be as good as our cheap one was.

    #96531
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    Sorry to tell you but our camera AGC absolutely handled the Qu line level fed into the mike input by the video team.
    We had them turn the gain on the mike as far down as possible.

    Where was the MIC gain you were adjusting. on the camera or mixer?

    Some of the “consumer” cameras don’t even have a level control.

    #96532
    Profile photo of Deltoran
    Deltoran
    Participant

    Just a quick update and some question and answer:

    We have a Canon XA11 camera with the two XLR inputs on the side. Both inputs are set to line and manual mode. Input 1 receives Mix 7-8 from our QU-32 which is our ‘livestream/recording’ mix. We use the same headphones for listening to the mix at the board as we do for listening to the camera, a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pros.

    I found the AGC setting on the camera, looks like there is no ‘off’ but I can switch it from Automatic to Manual and set it at 0db. Is that equivalent to ‘off’? Also, being an amateur, is there a difference between AGC for audio and video or is it paired together? When I turned the automatic off, the image became darker and sharper. Was hard to tell if the sound was much different but I didn’t have a full music group here today. If it’s a matter of having AGC off to help audio quality, do I need better lighting so the image stays the way it was? Thanks.

    #96533
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @deltoran

    Thanks for the camera info.

    You really need to read the manual. Sigh……….
    Our Canon manual is woefully short of useful information about the audio itself.
    I suspect yours is too.

    You may be hearing the camera mike mixed with the Qu feed.
    Also beware of the PC mike if you get to streaming not just edit and post the file.

    Can you also turn down the gain on the camera mike not just turn off the AGC?
    Our mike at 0 means mike gain not AGC which our canon seems to use no matter what.
    That is why we turned gain down as far as possible to approach -60 dB or so.
    But you have xlr inputs so yours might be different. Read the manual or check a canon forum.

    #96534
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    In your case the AGC in the set up menu is controlling the video level and nothing to do with sound.

    After taking a quick look at the camera, the switches next to the audio level controls
    that are labeled A & M are the automatic / manual (AGC) controls for the audio input
    levels. Put them in the M position.

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