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2020/12/15 at 3:44 pm #97312
@volounteer
live stream guys do not need to listen to anything *IF* you trust the audio team to set the mix right
Your “audio team” mixes from a balcony how do you think that mix could possibly translate to a half way decent live stream mix?
From what you say it sounds like their balcony mix does not even translate well to the lower seating areas.Anything that is acoustically louder in the room will be lower in the main mix and need to higher in the live steam mix.
They seem to think that more hardware and software will make up for their lack of skills which seems to run the gamut from cameras, to audio, and comms, as well as to avoid kicking the tripod so much.
What do you mean “they” from what I have read it is YOU that seem to think hardware and software will fix all the problems.
2020/12/15 at 5:50 pm #97321The audio board person du jour will listen to the mix on headphones which is the same audio shipped out of mix78 to the video PC for merging with the pix. It is custom adjusted just for the livestream. So unsure what you think is a problem there. The only problem I see is folks tweaking it once it was set up properly.
Let me set one thing straight, since you have noted it several time: The sound quality is GOOD. PERIOD.
There are some picky golden eared types who feel a need to make it ‘better’. Needless to say they disagree.
And with that bleeping ap that AH provides too many people can tweak the board simultaneously.
We need a feature that only one person can make any adjustments.
Full disclosure: I have tweaked the sound on occasion to my taste:) Not needed, but I ‘improved’ it anyway.
But I will defer if I see the MD using his Ipad.They, being the video team, are the ones who are proposing a Dual camera set up with associated gear that would be fine for a studio but far more than is ever needed for live stream. Live stream sites say we already have the top of the line camera for live stream. We have some operational issues which their wish list only touches in passing. They are hung up on megapixels and other things that cant happen no matter what, as utoob has a maximum resolution they provide no matter what you send to them initially. And we are limited by wifi bandwidth, the users bandwidth (I only get 460p at home), and also the PC monitors that are HD not 8K.
I only have ONE problem {other than the video folks:)} and am looking for a solution that I can get agreement on using. Yes I keep looking at alternatives to see what could work but they (the audio they) would be willing to do. One problem is the A1 still has a job and has limited time to put towards fixing problems until he is 100% retired. And I suspect he may still be learning digital as his experience was on the old analog board.
As to sound quality, as I have told the A1, nobody in the audience cares about what anyone does to make the sound ‘better’. Just get it close to good and that would be more than sufficient. Now I understand that the MD and A1 are compelled to tweak the sound to improve it. Unfortunately they are located in different places so hear different things. The key to me is that nobody complains about sound quality. Plenty of them complain about not being able to hear clearly at all. So the one and only problem I see that we need to fix is the excessive DR. That looks like a hardware fix in the Qu or a software fix in the video PC if they use an ap there to further limit the DR.
2020/12/15 at 9:28 pm #97329The audio board person du jour will listen to the mix on headphones which is the same audio shipped out of mix78 to the video PC for merging with the pix. It is custom adjusted just for the livestream. So unsure what you think is a problem there. The only problem I see is folks tweaking it once it was set up properly.
Ok I thought they were just going by what they heard in the balcony.
They, being the video team, are the ones who are proposing a Dual camera set up with associated gear that would be fine for a studio but far more than is ever needed for live stream.
Two cameras and a simple switcher (actually you can camera switch using OBS) with make for a more professional “looK”.
One camera can be set to a wide a cover shot and the primary camera gets the medium and close up shots. You can switch to the wide shot pick up a new shot on the primary camera then switch to the close up.
Maybe load some graphics in OBS to call up sometimes.The wide cover shot camera does not have to be a top of the line 4k.
2020/12/15 at 10:34 pm #97330They do listen on headphones to check the mixes. Is there any other way for mix monitoring?
They may not be listening on headphones when they tweak the live sound , from LR , in the balcony.
For sure the MD is up front left side hearing it there when he uses the Ipad.I would support another camera like we have now for about 15% of the cost they want to spend.
I might support a slightly better camera if they would justify how it helps the church somehow if only operating things easier.
But what they want is total GAS by someone who clearly does not understand what the camera specs mean or how the system works.
No camera needs to be 4K for livestream. utoob will limit it all to HD no matter what you send them.I agree they should get another, and have suggested they set one to long zoom and one to medium, and get an easy panning mount for the medium. They would need another small hardware encoder too.
They do some graphics with OBS but they are still wrapping their heads around getting the video done better.
Actually I checked last week and see they add words for the songs at the bottom now. But for now nothing fancy.
OTOH this is livestream not a network studio production.They got a new monitor so have two images on the left one, and other info on the pc display, so they can switch things by seeing what would go live when they do.
All in all they have done a great job coming from ground zero but they dont know what they dont know and try to do some things badly because of it. OTOH The main operator is (I think) about ready to enter HS and deserves a lot of credit for what he does get done. One of the Deacons on the video committee is the big spender.
2020/12/16 at 1:42 pm #97345utoob will limit it all to HD no matter what you send them.
this is simply wrong as a general statement
the resolution on Youtube live streams depends on many things
and it is possible to stream with more than 1080ibut it depends…
Two cameras and a simple switcher (actually you can camera switch using OBS) with make for a more professional “looK”.
actually OBS can switch very easily between cameras
the professional look would benefit more from better concepts than more cameras and a switcher
but mostly people have to find out what they want and need by just trying things outI did my first stream with OBS as well, but quickly changed that for better software or hardware encoders
a good device is the Atem Mini Pro,
only downside is it has only HDMI inputs, no SDI2020/12/16 at 2:56 pm #97351@SteffenR
When I went to utoob I saw various resolutions listed, and HD was the best it had,
and then went down to 320P over several intermediate resolutions.Money is finite. A church can’t print money and has other competing demands to spend it on.
For sure you do not NEED 4k or 8K for streaming.even if you paid for the gear and bandwidth utoob will limit what it sends to HD
and my own wifi will limit it to 720p, 360p if the speed is being throttled by ATT for other users on their net.we will (if they get a second one) switch between them using OBS
but they will have another external coder for the video from a second camera,
as that would be better than trying to make yet more changes since they already use one now.2020/12/16 at 4:24 pm #97358I did my first stream with OBS as well, but quickly changed that for better software or hardware encoders
a good device is the Atem Mini Pro,
only downside is it has only HDMI inputs, no SDIYea the ATEM Mini series packs a lot punch for it’s size and cost, the software
control opens up some more features but it falls into the prosumer/low level pro
video switcher.One catch with them is the input resolution has to be the same on all inputs.
The inputs will not individually scale.2020/12/16 at 4:41 pm #97363Clearly if you have the money that would be ‘better’.
But OBS is the leader in streaming as most people do not want to spend that much money.
2020/12/16 at 4:58 pm #97366Using the ATEM Mini switcher as a camera capture device feeding OBS is cheaper than buying three or four decent HDMI to USB input converters.
2020/12/16 at 7:58 pm #97372starting with a clean slate and ground zero it might be cheaper/better
but we have installed gear and operators who know how to use that stuff
so one more modestly priced converter is our best option now
*IF* we ever do get another camera2020/12/16 at 10:23 pm #97375starting with a clean slate and ground zero it might be cheaper/better
but we have installed gear and operators who know how to use that stuff
so one more modestly priced converter is our best option now
*IF* we ever do get another cameraKeep in mind the ATEM Mini can be had for $300 while it has a few limitations it does
a LOT for a $300 piece of video equipment and ……it can also be used as an audio interface that will take line level audio.Speaking of audio and to get this back on an Allen Heath audio topic.
You’ve mentioned many times about the video side of things only having a mic level
input.
Why don’t you use the USB B multitrack output to directly feed the computer that is running OBS.
OBS will see the Qu32 as a sound card audio input device, set tracks 1 & 2 on the USB
output to be your live stream mix.
You will need to apply some delay in the audio input settings on OBS to sync the audio
with video.2020/12/16 at 10:44 pm #97376The presonos has both a dual mike/line input connector
They chose to use the XLR and not the TSOBS syncs the audio & video okay
And as usual politics and what people already know and like are factors in making changes
2020/12/16 at 10:56 pm #97377Since they will not use the line input!!!!
Buy this……
Whirlwind PadDepending on the gain range on the interface the 40db pad version may work better.
2020/12/16 at 11:16 pm #973792020/12/17 at 3:09 am #97389I will tell the video team about this.
BUT Horses water drinking etc.They could chip with pocket change and buy one!
…..Or they could do with the USB connection with
a USB B to A cable that I’m sure you have an extra one
laying around or just use a 1/4 to 1/4 instrument cable
from the Alt Out to the 1/4 inch line input on the
interface.
Set the ALT OUT to the live stream mix quick simple and free!You guys do everything the hard way at your church!
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