Qu 32 Recording USB into DAW Windows Reaper

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This topic contains 31 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mike C Mike C 9 months ago.

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  • #97266
    Profile photo of blandified
    blandified
    Participant

    Hey all

    I have a Qu-32 at my church and want to record stems / multi-tracks of our live service. We want this for a number of reasons, but the main reason right now is that I want to replay the multi-tracks through FOH when nobody is there because I need to go through and set the preamp / gain levels for all the channels… and I don’t want to do this during service.

    I have been reading how to do this online and on this forum, but I want to make sure I know what I’m doing before I get there (since I live 1.5 hrs away).

    Windows 10
    Reaper DAW

    I read this tutorial and it seems straight forward: http://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/1164

    A couple questions if I follow these steps:

    1.) If I adjust the faders in my DAW, will these adjust the faders on the Qu-32 in real-time? Conversely, if I adjust the faders on the Qu-32, will these adjust the faders in my DAW?
    2.) After I successfully record all the multi-tracks, do I just replay it in my DAW and the audio will be sent back to the board and will play through FOH? And I can control each channel with the faders, and the gains of each channel?

    I know these may be newbie questions, but hopefully you can see what I’m trying to do. If you have ANY additional information, like tips or things to consider, please let me know.

    Thanks for your time!

    #97267
    Profile photo of blandified
    blandified
    Participant

    (cant figure out how to edit a post)

    3.) Do I create 32 empty channels in my DAW and then link via MIDI each channel to the appropriate channel on the Qu-32, or does it do this automatically?

    #97268
    Profile photo of blandified
    blandified
    Participant

    4.) Let’s say I successfully get the 32 channels into my DAW. Am I able to get the other layer of 32 channels into my DAW? By “other layer” I mean the one with FX Send and Return, DCA groups, etc.

    #97270
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @blandified

    Reaper should not be an issue.
    windows 10 may present its own peculiar issues.

    *IF* you have win10 set up to work properly with audio then you can play back 32 channels as I read the block diagram.
    You get 32 *channels* , which I read as the ones on the bottom, which are real channel strips.

    Scenes and set up choices should determine send returns, DCA groups ,etc not channels, so save your settings you used and then recall them using a scene for the test you do. THEN be sure to save that result as a brand new scene.
    Do check scenes in the manual for what you can save and what you can block from being changed on recall.

    Midi is a mystery to me, when it comes to the Qu, so you need to read the manual, google, or wait for someone with more experience to help you.
    However number 1 answer should be: ‘close enough for govt work’.
    And number 2: I sense is one way play or record, so change source to usb in not out , and play back 32 channels to hear them.

    Why not just move the faders on the Qu instead of messing around with MIDI control?

    Why not do a sound check and adjust the levels before the LIVE service????

    Or adjust them during the live service to get them right?????
    THEN save that scene for recall as your starting point.

    Seems more logical than doing them during the service with the wrong levels.

    #97272
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    Here is my very special setup procedure of Windows 10 when it should work with reaper to record and play back up to minimum 48 channels (not necessarily A&H condoles, but also with dLive and SQ).
    1) unpack the computer
    2) start it and finish the setup of the preinstalled Windows
    3) install reaper and the audio driver for the mixing console
    That is so far the setup. The next steps describes the usage
    4) start reaper, prepare it for recording of multitrack and start recording.
    5) after finishing the recording change the routing on the mixer to enable playback of the recorded tracks
    6) start the playback.

    Works well with standard desktop, laptop or mini PC. But maybe thats just related to the power lines of central europe, or the taste of the water, I don‘t know.

    #97273
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mfk0815

    more likely the whims of the hackers at microslop

    After you have had a win machine suddenly strike with no obvious reason you will realize how dangerous it is for real work.

    Win 10 killed a usb stick. Still worked on win10 but wont work anywhere else now.
    Win 8 suddenly turned off all usb ports to help me ‘save’ power. Did not ask for it did not want it.
    Real pain finding out how to get all the usb working again.

    google and you can find the horror stories of what win did to people without their asking or doing anything but just out of the blue decided it knew better than what we did about how to run things.

    #97278
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    I can only talk about my personal experience. Nothing more and nothing less. Experience of others may differ for several reasons. Some might be caused by the operator. Not everything is caused by the bad industry. Ah, and very bad, there is no upward compressor available on standard windows, very bad…

    @blandified
    I am not quite sure what you want todo exactly.
    Recording multitrack stems and playing them back via the QU32 do not need the usage of MIDI. So I cannot see any reason why you should concentrate on the MIDI stuff, at least not for the beginnings.
    You wrote
    „but the main reason right now is that I want to replay the multi-tracks through FOH when nobody is there because I need to go through and set the preamp / gain levels for all the channels…“
    Recording the input signals, e.g during a band rehersal, with the QU means that you send the input signal after the analog preamp and after the analog to digital conversion (AD converter) to the DAW for recording. Sending that signals back from the DAW to the mixer will bypass the analog preamp and the AD converter, so you cannot use that recordings to „set the preamp/gain levels“.
    So here are my answers for your questions
    1) the faders of the DAW and the console are not related to each other if you use the QU32 as a simple ASIO audio interface. There are possibilities to use the QU as a MIDI controller for Reaper, but I think that is not required for your task.
    2) yes, you have to adjust the output routing on reaper and the input routing on the QU to archive that. You can control the send level in reaper with the faders of Reaper and control the mixing levels on the QU with its faders. But you cannot control the preamp gain using the recorded tracks.
    3) as I said at 2) you have to define the routings on the DAW and also on the QU.

    Maybe this video can help: youtu.be/iXa4p2D4o_Q

    #97280
    Profile photo of blandified
    blandified
    Participant

    First off, thank you everyone for the responses! I am definitely learning a lot from you guys.

    As a general statement, I know you may be scratching your heads as to why I am wanting to do certain things. I am trying to steer our stream/sound to be better, and some of my questions aren’t necessarily the end goal, but just something I am trying to learn to get to our desired end result. Hopefully that makes sense.

    For example, I have been hesitant to change the preamp gains too much live because changing it would also effect the levels being sent to our livestream, since they share the same preamps and the livestream people will yell at me lol (we plan on splitting the snake and getting the livestream team their own board and preamps, but on a budget right now). I also am the only bass/guitar player, so it’s difficult helping with sound and playing at the same time.

    @volounteer
    Thanks for your tip on using scenes! That is a great idea and I will incorporate it.

    @mfk0815
    Thanks for clarifying the routing of board -> laptop and changing it for laptop -> board…. I was thinking the communication, once set, was two-way at all times but what you said makes sense.

    1.) On the MIDI question, my biggest thing was I wanted to be able to remote into the computer and adjust the sound of the livestream from home. I was thinking if a laptop is MIDI’ed to the soundboard and running in a DAW, I can remote in to the DAW and adjust the sound from my home computer. Would this be a good method?

    2.) Wow okay I don’t know how I missed that going from the DAW back to the board it would bypass the preamps, but what you said makes sense and you explained it extremely well. So this means if I DO send the multi-tracks from the DAW back to the board (like the virtual soundcheck video does), I can turn the preamp gain up down all around and it wouldn’t be affecting the levels of the playback?

    Thanks everyone! You don’t know how much you’re helping me!

    #97283
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @blandified

    Just what *IS* your goal?

    First you need to tune the room by ‘ringing it out’.
    Adjust the fine EQ on the LR outputs to achieve this.

    Then adjust your mikes EQ to gain maximum GBF to avoid ringing and set the gain to give you enough so that raising the fader will not cause feedback, and add in a few dB more depending on your comfort level of risk of feedback.
    Then do not ever raise the gain on the preamps.

    If someone is talking too loud then lower the fader. If too soft, well you can go up 10dB safely.
    After that you might be able to use compression and some make up gain to raise their speech but dont do all that in RT during the service.

    This is simplified so consult a more detailed explanation or have the dealer do this for y’all.

    As to livestream feed them from a mix. You can set the mix so you wont have problems if you use the faders as intended.
    And of course you set the preamp to max already so you will not touch that at all.

    Livestream should be using OBS which has its own controls so you do not need another Qu.
    Use an audio interface to connect the mix to the PC with OBS.
    You may or may not have a hardware device for the video or (I understand) could use the OBS in the PC to do that along with merging audio onto the video.

    #97286
    Profile photo of blandified
    blandified
    Participant

    @volounteer

    In terms of our livestream goals, one of our ideal setups would be to get a Y-split on the snake that splits to FOH and livestream (we visited another church recently that did this and it really works for them). FOH and livestream have their own boards and thus their own preamp gains… this is nice so if FOH turns up their gains, it won’t affect livestream and vice versa.

    Currently, our livestream setup is next to FOH, and we use IEM or headphones to listen to livestream audio. In a perfect world, we sound treat a back room and set up all the livestream gear in there, get studio monitors, get a dedicated computer to handle DAW and multirack for processing, etc.

    Just as FYI, Mix4 on the Qu-32 is our mix for the livestream, and we send that from the board to the livestream via XLR.

    #97287
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @blandified

    you could do that but it would cost more money
    since you really need OBS the extra board is redundant

    you can set the main board so the video gain does not get changed
    but if it does they can tweak it in OBS

    in a perfect world your church obviously has a LOT more money to throw around than ours

    we use mix78 to an audio interface
    since the mix is line level be careful you dont run it into a mike level xlr input

    #97291
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    Currently, our livestream setup is next to FOH, and we use IEM or headphones to listen to livestream audio. In a perfect world, we sound treat a back room and set up all the livestream gear in there, get studio monitors, get a dedicated computer to handle DAW and multirack for processing, etc.

    Just as FYI, Mix4 on the Qu-32 is our mix for the livestream, and we send that from the board to the livestream via XLR.

    Is your mix 4 set up pre or post fade?
    Is the person who is monitoring the live stream mix with headphones using an ipad to
    control the live stream mix?

    If you could get an audio feed from mix 4 into another room and in that room still connect to the WIFI the mixer is on you could mix the live mix outside of the main sound of the sound system on a small pair of speakers.

    If forget the company who makes them but they have some extreme isoloation headphones
    basically hearing protector earmuffs with Sony headphone elements in them.
    Using something like those in the same room as the main sound system would help give you an isolated mix reference.

    #97306
    Profile photo of blandified
    blandified
    Participant

    @Mike_C

    I don’t know if Mix4 is pre or post fade, but I will look online and try to figure out how I can tell. Once I can figure that out, should I set it for pre or post fade?

    Yes, the person running the livestream has “noise cancelling” headphones and using an iPad to control Mix4 (livestream mix). I was talking to another church and they don’t recommend any sort of headphones, IEM only. I think this would be a better option if we cannot go to a separate room with studio monitors… when I play guitar/bass with my IEM, I can’t hear ANY thing cause they cancel the sound so well. We might need to have the livestream sound guys to get their own IEM.

    #97309
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @blandified

    live stream guys do not need to listen to anything *IF* you trust the audio team to set the mix right
    what you must do is set the sound you export with the video using a meter on the screen to get the level right.
    ‘good’ is subjective and most of your audience is listening on pc speakers and are not golden eared audiohiles.

    That said we provide TWO sets of headphones to the video guys so they feel better about things.
    It would be better if they were not running our mix out into the mike input:)
    and then keep asking us to lower the signal level.

    They seem to think that more hardware and software will make up for their lack of skills which seems to run the gamut from cameras, to audio, and comms, as well as to avoid kicking the tripod so much.

    #97311
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    I don’t know if Mix4 is pre or post fade, but I will look online and try to figure out how I can tell. Once I can figure that out, should I set it for pre or post fade?

    Yes, the person running the livestream has “noise cancelling” headphones and using an iPad to control Mix4 (livestream mix). I was talking to another church and they don’t recommend any sort of headphones, IEM only. I think this would be a better option if we cannot go to a separate room with studio monitors… when I play guitar/bass with my IEM, I can’t hear ANY thing cause they cancel the sound so well. We might need to have the livestream sound guys to get their own IEM.

    There are a few ways to check mix pre or post fade settings.

    – select the mix (mix 4 in this case) and then go to the Pre Fade and Assign buttons
    on the left of mixer next to the row of green select buttons.
    Hitting the Assign button will show every channel assigned to the selected mix.
    Hitting the the Pre Fade button with show all channels that are set pre fade.
    While holding the Assign or Pre Fade button you can use the green select buttons to toggle the selections.

    – Select the routing screen and then select channel by channel, the menu will show all
    routing selections for the selected channel.

    -Select the needed mix and the routing screen will show the global options for that mix.

    IEM’s or good isoaltion headphones either one will work when mixing a separate mix in the live sound environment as long as they sound decent and block the outside sound.

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