QU-32 Mute button

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Alex A&H Alex A&H 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 8 posts - 16 through 23 (of 23 total)
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  • #87868
    Profile photo of Alex A&H
    Alex A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Thomas,

    I would recommend using the Mackie DAW Control protocol rather than assigning each control individually.

    You can find how to do that here: https://www.allen-heath.com/media/DAW-Control-Help-V1.71.pdf

    In terms of what is happening here. A mute on MIDI message (Note on) is different to a mute off message (Note off) for a channel, so you will need to set up two controls for each on & off action.

    Thanks!
    Alex

    #87892
    Profile photo of tom42
    tom42
    Participant

    Hi Alex,
    thank you very much for fast response!

    Yes, the Mackie Control Protocol via ‘DAW Control’ works fine, I also tried this out. But connecting via Generic MIDI Controller I can use also the EQ encoders on QU-16 to do my EQ settings in Cubase, that’s a lot of fun 🙂
    But You pushed me to a interesting point saying that ‘Note on’ and ‘Note off’ Messages are not the same.
    So today I installed ‘Midi Monitor’ and debugged the Messages between QU-16 and Cubase when you push ‘Mute’ or ‘Un-mute’ in Cubase to find the difference between the Mackie protocol (which works fine) and the Generic MIDI Controller (which doesn’t).

    The difference is:
    Mackie: pushing ‘Mute’ or ‘Un-Mute’ in Cubase, always a sequence of 2 Messages (‘Note on’ and ‘Note off’) is generate by DAW Controller App and sent to QU-16:
    (Example for Channel 1):
    Mute:
    14:21:58.892 To MIDI In Note On 2 C-2 127
    14:21:58.892 To MIDI In Note Off 2 C-2 0

    Un-Mute:
    14:23:13.653 To MIDI In Note On 2 C-2 63
    14:23:13.653 To MIDI In Note Off 2 C-2 0

    Generic Controller: only one single message is sent from Cubase directly to QU-16 (without ‘translation’ from DAW Controller App):
    Mute:
    14:19:39.700 To MIDI In Note On 1 G♯0 127

    Un-Mute
    14:20:32.555 To MIDI In Note Off 1 G♯0 0

    ==> So along to my understanding Cubase always sends one single message (Note-on or Note-off) and only via the DAW Controller App they will be ‘translated’ into the needed sequence of 2 messages expected by QU-16, right?
    (By the way: QU-16 also sends this sequence of Note-on & Note-off message to Cubase for a single push of Mute button – what’s the reason for this?)

    You mentioned the need of two separate controls to be able to send back a Un-Mute MIDI message understandable for QU-16 using Generic MIDI Controller (I think the MIDI sequence described above is needed).
    I tried this but I coulnd’t make it working.

    Do you have a concrete description how to do this?

    Thanks a lot in advance & Many Greetings!
    Thomas

    #87893
    Profile photo of Alex A&H
    Alex A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Thomas,

    You can find how the Qu uses MIDI here: http://www.allen-heath.com/media/Qu_MIDI_Protocol_V1.9.pdf

    In your generic controller, try changing Un-mute to Note On 1 G♯0 63.

    I say this because a mute control uses a Note on message followed by a note off message. For example

    90 20 7F 80 20 00 – turns the mute on for CH1

    It is the velocity which changes the control on Qu. For example

    90 20 3F 80 20 00 – turns the mute off for CH1

    You may also notice that the note off message (80 20 00) is the same in each example. The Qu does work when you don’t send that last message for this control, so you can just send the first Note on message and change the velocity to change the control.

    You may find our MIDI webinar useful also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgk9xbsqxsA

    Alex

    #87896
    Profile photo of tom42
    tom42
    Participant

    Hi Alex,
    ok, I think I understand it. Now I’ll try to find out how to tell Cubase to send a ‘Note on’ with a Velocity > 0 for Mute-off message.
    In Generic Controller it seems you can only set the max. value (127) for the Note-on message but not the min. value.
    And toggeling the Mute function the Note-off message will be generated automatically with Velocity 0 => along to the docu of QU-16 that message will be ignored because of Velocity = 0 … that explains everything.

    I’ll do some Research and will get back to you soon.

    Thanks a lot!
    Thomas

    #87899
    Profile photo of tom42
    tom42
    Participant

    Hi Alex,
    I couldn’t configure Cubase to send a Note-on message with a veloctiy value of 1 when Un-muting a channel.
    It seems to me that Cubase sends a Note-off message with Velocity 0 as Default for Un-muting a channel … and I can’t find a possibility to change this behaviour. Even if I assign a second controller to a channel’s ‘Mute’ function (in fact there’s only a ‘Mute’ function and no separate ‘Un-Mute’ function) both controllers are triggered but both send a Note-off message when Un-mute the channel.
    I also posted it in Steinberg Forum, maybe somebody knows a solution there.

    Do you have an idea concerning Cubase’s configuration for this issue?

    Thomas

    #87909
    Profile photo of Alex A&H
    Alex A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Thomas,

    Unfortunately not as I’ve not used Cubase for this task. Hopefully you find your answer on the Cubase forum.

    Thanks!
    Alex

    #87913
    Profile photo of tom42
    tom42
    Participant

    Hi Alex,
    thanks to your great information about MIDI messages I could solve this issue using Bome MIDI translator app.
    I think there’s no other way because you can’t change Cubase’ standard outgoing MIDI Messages of Generic Controller, and so they won’t fit QU-16’s needs without a translator app (for Mute & Solo Buttons).
    In Detail:
    Mute & Solo messages are routed through Bome MIDI translator that translates them to be understandable for QU-16.
    All other channel messages (Fader, Pan, EQ) are routed directly to QU-16.

    It’s a Little bit tricky and Needs some time to find out the correct Translation rules, if you (or somebody else in this forum having the same problem) are interested in them it would be a pleasure for me to provide it.

    Again thanks a lot!
    Thomas

    #87916
    Profile photo of Alex A&H
    Alex A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Thomas,

    I’m pleased to hear you found a solution!

    Hopefully other users looking to do the same thing can make use of your work.

    Thanks! Alex

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