Qu-24, mapping to USB "Line in"

[Salem874Participant]

Hi All,

Sorry for the delayed reply…

@williamadams, what we’re needing to do is (much to my dissatisfaction) is get an audio feed into a PC for use in Zoom. So, it’s not quite OBS where you can adjust your own gain.

We managed to get audio into the PC via the Windows Line-in but volume was extremely low, so I figured adding gain at the Qu USB out would give flexibility

I had figured adding another audio interface, but figured the USB would be much easier…

@mikec, thanks Mike…so it looks like I’m on the right track then? Can i ask for elaboration on the suggestion to setup PRE on the LR Mix? the general LR Mix or the LR mix to the USB CH 17&18? IS this not a pre-fader send? I would want a post-fader send though, as the idea is we’d want to control the sound mix through the faders, which is why i figured i could just route L+R Mix…

@williamadams, yes we need a stereo feed into the PC for Zoom purposes (so, the ASIO isn’t really going to work). You suggest routing via MIX78. Is this instead of my suggestion of using a Matrix? This may be a naive question, is there a difference between a Mix and a Matrix (or i guess, pros and cons between the two)?

[volounteerParticipant]

We tried both matrix and mix for our livestream. We settled on the mix78 stereo out.
Adding the usb may seem to be easier. Making it work right could be another problem you dont need to fix.

The matrix lets you do more things to the sound like having another mixer in the chain to the PC for streaming.
Look at the block diagram and see the pros/cons versus a mix.

As I noted, we use mix78 with one stereo pair to an audio interface (we use presonus) and there is plenty of gain that we have to lower it to keep the stream level from clipping. We also considered usb, but abandoned that as there are just too many people having too many problems with usb, and we do not want to fight problems we can avoid.

AFAIK mix/matrix would work fine, but the A1 just found that using mix78 was easier to do when the livestream folks ask for changes, which their golden ears often do. We humor them even though the audience does not notice any of it outside of perhaps the lufs levels changing. We have asked them to use the QuYou ap and do it for themselves but they are stubborn and ignore everything we suggest they do. Well at least for many months as they did finally just go to real OBS which we had noted was THE standard for churches doing streaming. Maybe by 2022 they will change their mind on the ap too.

In theory you can also put a DAW in front of OBS and raise the gain there even more, and then send the signal to obs and then on to the CDN. But still better to just just use the presonus or other audio i/f.

[Mike CParticipant]

@mikec, thanks Mike…so it looks like I’m on the right track then? Can i ask for elaboration on the suggestion to setup PRE on the LR Mix? the general LR Mix or the LR mix to the USB CH 17&18? IS this not a pre-fader send? I would want a post-fader send though, as the idea is we’d want to control the sound mix through the faders, which is why i figured i could just route L+R Mix…

On the matrix mix set up in the block for the LR if you select that to PRE then if you make overall level changes to the main system with the master LR fader those level changes will not change the level of the LF matrix mix feed to your live stream.
Any changes you make to the main mix with the channel faders will still follow through
to the live stream mix.

Now…if your using one of the mixes to feed your live stream and you want that to track what happens in the main mix that mix will need to be set to POST.
As a starting point then go and set all the channel mix sends the same, bump up the spoken word mic inputs higher than the music/band inputs as a starting point. In puts that are lower or higher on the live stream feed can be adjusted as needed on the mix send levels. Once there adjusted the live stream mix will follow the main mix but any channels that you adjusted higher or lower on the mix sends to balance the mix in the live stream feed the level changes will track proportionally to the main mix changes.

[Salem874Participant]

Thanks again everyone. You have been a huge help, even just by reassuring me that i’m on the right path.

But, i’m afraid i do have another question, with regards to assigning channels/mixes to another (say L+R Mix to Mix 7-8). This was is a new thing to the team (We’d only recently got the Qu, and havent need to use additional mixes yet, prior to COVID resulting in us having to close things down.

We’re now heading back, and this passed weekend attempted the above, but it didnt seem to work (Understandably, the A&H user guide/reference manual is written for seasoned audio guys).

I’ve since done some looking looking online and the closest thing I could find was this YouTube video, but given this talks about Groups, i’m still a bit unsure if this is something totally different.

We’ve also since discovered that we also actually want to map this “mix” not only to USB CH 17-18, but also to two of our XLR outs, but we should be OK to get the routing to Outs. it’s mainly the assigning of channels to the mix, and applying gain.

As always, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[SteffenRParticipant]

you can try this video

[volounteerParticipant]

@salem874

you do not assign the LR to mix78
they are separate outputs with separate mixing for different purposes
LR is to feed the amps live in the nave and mix78 feeds the PC with OBS for streaming

The point is you do not send LR to the mix
but you create a duplicate mix with tweaks to better fit OBS
the sound and levels you want live are not what you want on the livestream
live and streaming will need different mixes to be best for their purpose

What you need to do is select mix78 button on right and then create the mix you want for the livestream.
use the same faders as for LR
they are now changing the mix not messing with LR

In our case we have to add our audience mike to pick up the organ which is not in the LR
otherwise the livestream would have no organ music
we raise the piano mikes level for streaming as we dial it back live because it is already loud acoustically
also we need to tweak the rf mikes for how loud the user is talking/singing. that might be done on LR and used for mix78
and we custom set the preacherman’s mike level for his RF mike. that might also be done on LR and used for mix78
and if there is a guest we adjust the level at the podium mike
we had a standalone mike for the music director to use but that one went missing

This set up should be done at sound check time.
If you have the same people every week then you could leave it the same as was recalled in the scene that saved everything.

Now our video guys are different from most people and they sometimes want more of this and less of that
so when they ask we just push mix78 button and tweak the faders for whatever input they feel a need to change

initially you need to push the mix button then use the faders to adjust the mix
send the mix out the xlr pair for the mix to an audio interface and then into the PC and DAW/OBS
they are already hardwired pre-‘mapped’ to those two outputs on the back

groups are different you do not need them for this mix for livestream

yes the documentation is meant for the engineers who built it not typical users
you would make a lot of progress if you looked at the signal flow diagram and the block diagram
and then traced the signal path from channel inputs on the left through everything including busses and out the mix78 on right

I made a higher level summary view of the busses that showed where each can get signal from or send it to
which I found useful to help my memory when I tried to do things like you are attempting

[Salem874Participant]

Thanks @volounteer

So, to clarify, we’d need to assign all channels, post-fade, to mix 7-8 and not the L+R Mix? Now that you mentioned this, I do remember having this in mind. I think the pressure (time) on the day meant i forgot about that entirely!

I guess we would we had initially expected that we could adjust the FOH (LR Mix) and have the same work for the computer (I’m intentionally not referring to OBS, as OBS isnt in our – current – workflow). This did work fairly well last week, except for the need to add additional global gain.

I guess its not possible to route LR to Mix 7-8? Again, assuming we can also route Mix 7-8 to both USB Out CH 17-18 and XLR Out?

—–
Again, apologies for the novice questions. We’re very much new to it all and being out of practice with having done been fully at the desk for over a year doesnt help (Just as we were starting to get the hang of it and started looking into mixes, COVID struck!)

[volounteerParticipant]

@salem874

do nothing to the LR mix
leave what is assigned there alone
that is fine
so just use it for the live service and now forget about it wrt streaming

create a duplicate of that in mix78 as a starting point (just hit mix78 button)
and then tweak it to suit the livestream

I get confused about how AH PAFL means different things and when. I wish they would say pre and post and just mean those.
you may or may not (I think I recall you would) need to use PAFL on mix78 when you listen on phones to check it
do not think you need to do it otherwise. maybe one of the pro FOH guys will show up and clarify that.
easy enough to play with that though just push pafl buttons and see what happens.

I use OBS as a generic term since most churches actually do use OBS.
It could be your DAW or some other streaming program. Maybe even to local radio/tv.
Our video guys started with streamlabs but finally got smart and now they use OBS
I recall there are a few very minor competitors but I would be afraid to use them as they might not survive in the long run
and none of them seemed to have anything special to recommend choosing them. UK might be different.

I do not do the assigning but I am sure you can send mix78 to any usb number you want but that would leave you with a signal that most people complain is too low at the PC. I have no idea if you can assign a mix to LR, but why ???? you already have LR on LR. most of us use the mix to feed an onstage monitor or other rooms.
Also pretty sure that you cant assign LR to anything but the LR outputs that are hardwired to xlr connectors.

Again please , please, do look at the block diagram and signal flow diagram and trace your signal path from in to out.
that will help you understand a lot more about what is happening and how.

always recall that you are doing two parallel mixes that are essentially the same but with minor tweaks to suit live or streaming
focus on one or the other and do not conflate them at all. they are separate things for different usages.

If you go to the bother to set up mix78 then just send it from the xlr outs labelled mix78 and into an audio interface where you can get plenty of gain into the PC to hand off to DAW OBS or some other program.

unless you are going to mix in the PC there is no point in using usb to send a stereo pair. then you would send all the channels over usb so you could mix them in the PC. but why? you already did it on mix78 which is so much easier than adding another program in the livestream chain and adding more work to the video operators on that side of your service support.

[Mike CParticipant]

You can assign all the channels to all the mixes in any combination or all at the same time.
The mixes can be also assigned to the USB output at the same time they feed an analog output on the mixer.

[Salem874Participant]

Hi All,

I just wanted to follow up (and seek further advise) on this query.

Great news, we did manage to get everything routed to MIX7&8 band into a video switch for further use downstream (and also online/”upstream”).

I do however have one question (and i suspect i may be missing something obvious here)…

I suspect someone must’ve changed some setting because as of this weekend, our microphone levels going into Mix7&8 is not only determined by the MIX7&8 send (Mix 7&8 faders) but ALSO by the L+R Faders.

I do the Mix7&8 mix every weekend but as of this weekend if our in-house (L+R) fader for a channel is low (suitable for in-house) it is also low on Mix7&8. Even after pre-amp and with the relevant Mix7&8 Fader maxed.

Interestingly, this isn’t the case with our ST3 (which is feed via the USB-input from a computer). For ST3 the MIX7&8 level is totally independent of L+R ST3.

As i say, I’m sure I’m missing something obvious (when under pressure to resolve issues like this, one doesn’t always think clearly, so would really appreciate your advice.

[GigaParticipant]

Somebody switched that mix from pre fader to post fader.

Giga

[Salem874Participant]

Thanks @giga, thats was my initial (very beginner theory). Will try and have a look today where that would be

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