Prices keep falling on us

[Anonymous]

Well, it’s like falling stock prices… If I would have thought of this I would have prefered to wait for them to decide at what price their going to sell the unit.

It’s 13% loss now, btw.

[GCumbeeParticipant]

What price drop are you referencing? What item? What is the current price?

[mamericaParticipant]

So, when Apple sells its new iPhone later this fall, they should continue to sell it for the same price indefinitely? That makes no sense at all. Early adopters will always pay more. That’s just the way it is.

[Lee7Participant]

In response to dhak’s post.

Not all UK made QU-16’s had black screws, mine is an early UK made unit that has the standard silver screws.

Lee 🙂

[Anonymous]

GCumbee, I’m referring to the Qu-16 in Europe. Price in March: 1990€. Price today: 1690€

So it’s 15% loss on the brand new street price by today.

Mamerica, I understand your argument but there is no “Qu-16 2” at the moment. This kind of price drop isn’t normal even in the PC industry. Also neither the Bellringer nor Soundcraft have done that to the X32 or SiEx1.

It looks like they didn’t plan to produce a Qu-24 or Qu-32 at first and are now forced to lower the price of the smaller unit. Nevertheless, it’s not funny. If I was a PA rental house I wouldn’t find it funny either.

I think, if you want to put your product in a more competitive position against other companies, better load it with features others have. And don’t let your customers wait for a year for channel names and EQ band colors and the such.

OT: the traffic to this site seems to be routed through one of the Voyagers…

[dcongdonParticipant]

I cannot speak for markets outside of the U.S., but behringer did in fact drop their X32 prices a few months after shipping the first batch Rack/Producer models. At least on the west coast, we saw a $300-$400 value loss for early adopters on all models. The GLD series has seen temporary price drops as well (or rebates) over the years. These are all necessary incentives… sometimes you catch a deal and sometimes you miss it.

I think your point is understood. However, we’re not making investments in gold or real estate, we are buying products that have a very limited life-span. These are liabilities. It doesn’t help that the QU series sits in the most competitive digital mixer market and that the low/mid range digital console market hasn’t settled yet. Companies are still trying to find a balance between features, reputation, and value. As long as behringer can lower the cost of their product and still attract customers to their product features, it is in our best interest that other brands follow suit. Competition drives down prices. Either that means price drops (value loss) for the customer…or having yearly models released with market-adjusted pricing and new features (similar to car sales). The latter option would be a disaster since most systems are proprietary. Without a common protocol/language for all digital mixers, we are best served by 5-10 year model/platform lifespans, free software updates, and price adjustments for market value.

If you need the new features now… accept the liability and pay the current market value (just know it’ll likely change tomorrow). If you are making an investment, buy land.

[Anonymous]

Focal, thank you for your elaborated response. Maybe I should have expected this price drop. It just hasn’t happened to any other music gear I’ve bought, and that has been really a lot for being only a musician (and not a theater or a PA rental for example). The only things I have experienced such a value loss with are my car and my computer. No guitar, no bass, no amp, no cab, no pa-speaker, no mic, no fx-unit, no stand, no case, nothing else. Not even my drum computer from 2004 or my e-piano have lost value (in terms of new street prices).
It’s the first time I see a piece of gear I bought to loose value this way. I guess I should get acustomed to it since a mixer is now like a computer and doesn’t just get old, it becomes obsolte far earlier than it gets old. But I think this price drop is due to the market stil settling, as you say.

[dcongdonParticipant]

I agree. Most of the gear you listed are well established products with defined market positioning. Feature changes for these products are minimal. A 2007 USA Stratocaster is pretty similar to a 2014 version…maybe a slightly different lacquer or pickup wound. Each product has an set of qualities that are more valuable unchanged. That is essentially where the analog mixer market is at. It will be interesting to see where the analog mixer value settles once the digital market balances out.

For digital mixers, the market separation was pretty clear early-on with budget mixers like the studiolive foregoing motorized faders and routing flexibility. Competitors entered the game and quickly ate into Presonus’ market value with moving faders and nicer preamps. I’m no authority on the matter…but it seems like we now have 4 strata of digital mixers forming: ipad-mixers (DL1608, TouchMix-16, Stagescape M20D), small format, motorized mixers (QU, Si Expression, X32, etc), Advanced routing (GLD, Si Performer, M200-i, M32, Pro1, QL5, etc), and tour grade (iLive, Vi, Pro2+, CL5, sc48, etc). I still don’t know where to place the Studiolive… probably with the iPad mixers.

As we all know, the X32 was a shock to many of us because of the shear number of professional features at the price point. Really, the price difference is simply to make up for the brand’s reputation and reliability. For some, it makes the liability a worthwhile investment. Many of us who have adopted A&H products value a more respected manufacturer with a proven track record. We sell that reputation and depend on its reliability. I’m sure you are the same way. But as a freelance engineer, I am first to acknowledge that I keep a couple brands in stock to account for the various projects I am hired for. Sometimes you need bells and whistles, sometimes a workhorse…and sometimes you need cheap functionality.
____________

I think we’ll find a clearer picture in a year or two (crossing my fingers). Major changes will slow down and give way to basic firmware updates. It really depends when the next tour-grade feature is made available to low/mid range products. Maybe 192k, complete crossover DSP in the mixer, built-in routers or networking, or wireless stage boxes. Who knows. That will probably usher in the 2.0 models and product value upheaval. Again, I don’t expect that for a couple years unless a manufacturer wants to make a splash into the market. For now, any adjustments appear to be temporary incentives or attempts to stay competitive in the market.

A final thought…
In many ways, I see the digital mixer market much like the guitar amp/fx simulation explosion in the last decade. Everyone was amazed with Line 6 amp modeling… until the next year’s model came out. They were cool tools for solo musicians, but a horrible investment. A classic tube amp with traditional fx pedals would hold their value more than a computer-based simulator. The difference in our situation is that a digital mixer not only simulates an analog mixer, it can now offer us features previously impossible to achieve with analog. I think the digital mixing platform is here to stay…it just isn’t fully matured.

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