Output Trim

[Hugo]

Hello,
I would find it interesting to be able to have a Trim function on the output buses in order to be able to have the fader at 0dB while having the desired level.

What do you think ?

Thank you,
Hugo

[volounteer]

+1 except that would cause other problems so AH wont do it

when the output is at 0dBFS you get your standard voltage out
you really need to trim with what is going in not LR out
else tweak the power amp that follows if necessary

[The Cat]

You can always feed the output from the output bus into a matrix and feed the matrix to the main output so that you could have the mix fader at 0dB and trim the output from the matrix to the desired level.

[Hugo]

For sure but very limited (3 stéréo out max) …

[Mfk0815]

Hmm, there will always be a „but“. I know that there are consoles out there that allows you to adjust the delay on the output socket, some allows you even to adjust the output level for each socket individual. But, here you see the „but“ for this solution, sometimes you need extra EQing or compression on that output and then this solution is not sufficient.
Just keep that in mind.

[volounteer]

@Mfk0815

That sounds like a different issue.

If you want to do those things then use a matrix, or run things through a group first.

It would be convenient if they set up LR to have matrix abilities PLUS also gain and then adjust the DAC to reach +4dBu when the signal out is at 0dBFS.

[Mfk0815]

But what if you want to send the main LR signal to, lets say, 6 different target systems and you need to tweak the EQ for each of them? You have to choose which one will be correctly processed and which one not.
There will always be a „but“. The only remedy is to choose the right device and sometimes the desired one is not the right one. That is the simple truth. If you look at some competitors, like the big one from Japan, you will see that some mixers, on the bottom end of product line, are designed int that particular point similar to the SQ. If you need more, buy another model.
You can‘t buy a Toyota Aygo and think that you will get the same features a with a Mercedes S500.

[Dave Meadowcroft]

+1 from me.

My use case is for setting the max output level from the SQ to be suitable for the next device in the chain.

For example – the SQ max output is +22 dBu. We feed LR to a BSS FDS-334T. It’s max input is +20 dBu.
So having a trim on the output and setting that to -2 dB would mean the max levels of both devices are perfectly matched.
The wedge monitor amplifiers are fed directly from the SQ outputs but accept a much lower level, +4 dBu if I remember correctly so -18 dB trim would be perfect there.

The previous desk in this venue was a Yamaha LS9-32 which had trims on all outputs. Once these were set correctly (along with crossover gain and limiter settings) all problems with clipping down the chain disappeared and was a lot safer when in the hands of deps that didn’t know about the specific intricacies of our set up. With the SQ I’ve had to make a cheat sheet with max output levels detailed for FOH and wedges to avoid this and hope they read and understand it.

[KeithJ A&H]

Hi all,

The OP here is a reasonable request as it would allow use of the faders in their most ‘accurate’ range (i.e. about 0dB where there is finer adjustment) whilst being able to trim the actual output level.
It would also have many other implications, including allowing the ‘reset’ fader function to be used! 😉
Unfortunately the SQ can connect to far too many sockets, so I will quickly point out that I can’t imagine this would be possible on a per-socket basis as it would require almost 300 extra gain stages to be added…

There seems to be some confusion about levels and the measurement of them in a couple of the other posts here.
Rather than spam this thread, I’ve put some info here : https://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/levels-and-metering-in-qu-and-sq

Cheers,
Keith.

[volounteer]

@KeithJ A&H

300 gain stages??????

You only need one gain stage on the output to LR.
Gain, EQ, pan, on LR would be a huge help for many users.

[Jgrift]

Yamaha does this on the output circuit. It always drives me nuts bc for some reason it wouldn’t recall in a scene. So you were left wondering why less sound would be coming out of the left speaker for far too long!

And the reason its 300 gain stages is bc the SQ can connect to a lot of I/O. And each output socked would need this gain stage.

[Søren Steinmetz]

I suspect Keith thinks about situations where someone needs say:
L-R out on the Console, and on a stagerack, and on a second rack/expander, with all outs trimmed to different levels due to the equipment connected.

[SteffenR]

but if it’s done then it has to be done on all outputs

[Hugo]

In really, we just need the trim on the Main L-R, Mix and group.
I agree on every output it would be awesome but it’s “just” a 3000$ mixer 😉
Cheers

[KeithJ A&H]

@Hugo ,

If you just want to use a mix master send fader in the range around 0dB, then you can simply assign that mix to a DCA:
Leave master fader at 0dB, bring down the DCA to adjust level, then hide away the DCA fader (if you need to) and mix as usual.

Cheers,
Keith.

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