Mixes to inputs – FX Returns Please!!

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Jgrift Jgrift 3 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #72593

    So I usually use a Group for drum sub send to IEM’s (Duplicate drum channels, mixed @ Surface level—>Group—>ME-1 (and OneMix for Wireless IEM locations.)

    The issue I’m running in to is that FX returns are either on, or off in that group. Meaning, they hear the level of drum verb I want @ FOH, which is typically too much for IEM.

    I want to be able to have a duplicate FX return I can send to that group so that I can keep the faders next to the Drum IEM channels, so that mix is a matter of adjusting main faders when needed.

    My initial thought was to use FX Return as an input source for an input channel, then send that to a group, but it doesn’t look like you can do that! Bummer. …so I tried using Rack FX output, but that just disables the return channel. I’d rather not burn another Stereo Group *and* a set of input channels to make that happen, which is what it looks like I’ll need to do. (Or burn i/o elsewhere.) So I would like to request: please add FX returns to input source on a channel!

    #72674
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    don’t understand, that makes no sense to me

    FX-return is an input not an output, so it is not possible as a source for an input

    assign it to more than one stereo channels

    #72686

    False: FX return is kind of a hybrid of Input channel and Output channel, as it takes a mix output and feeds it somewhere. …but yes, the obvious solution is to feed multiple input channels from the output of the desired FX units themselves. Where that becomes a bummer: When you select an FX return channel, the FX unit shows up on screen, whereas if I have an FX unit set to be the source of an input channel, the only way to see the FX unit it’s being fed by is to go to FX rack, then scroll for the FX unit in question. In those circumstances it becomes a bit of a workflow nuisance/inconvenience, as it is much, much faster to select an FX return channel and edit from there.

    Thus, it would be nice to be able to feed the output from an FX return channel, to the input of an input channel. (Without burning i/o.)

    #72688
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    You can select the RackFX as a source for any input channel. The dedicated FX return will be disabled then, but you can path the RackFX output to more than one input DSP channel.

    #72693
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    @ThatComplicatedMidiGuy

    the FX return is just another input with limited features and fixed source
    the output of the FX ist fed to the returmn channel, but the input comes from…

    “tada” FX send

    #72710

    @ Steffen – Right, I get that. But in this case, it is functioning as an output extension of an FX unit. IE, if you set the source of an input channel to the output of an FX unit, the return disappears. Thus, I would argue that even though it is *technically* an input, it is an output by way of extension, and you should be able to patch the output of said FX return to the input of an input channel. IE – I want to maintain my FX return, I also want an input channel w/ FX as source. I should be able to have both.

    @ Jens – and yes, that was another thing I looked at; but again, it creates a workflow annoyance, because then you *must* go to the FX rack in order to edit that particular FX unit; instead of being able to quickly flip around between input channels/returns etc; kind of a major speed bump when you’re trying to do things quickly.

    To be fair – In an analogue domain, the argument for FX return being an “input” channel makes absolute sense. In a digital domain I would argue that line is a lot blurrier depending on the architecture. By this logic, a Matrix should be considered an input channel, even though it is a mix of mixes/typically used to feed output sources.

    #72712
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    An option would be to use a post fader stereo aux instead group. Set all drumm channels to unity gain and add thr reverb return with the desired level. The result would imho be the same but without extra return channels or similar.

    #72714

    Yes, but you can’t send an AUX to be controlled by OneMix as you can with a Group. So that is a nonstarter. (We use both ME-1 for wired locations: Drums/Bass/Keys, and wireless transmitters fed directly by the console, controlled by OneMix.)

    #72720
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    You can still get to the FX editing screen by selecting the FXs send mix.

    #72721

    Ah, but only if you’re using FX sends as opposed to Aux paths. I wanted the ability to filter *and* compress the input side of my FX chains, you don’t get either using an FX send.

    #72750
    Profile photo of Jgrift
    Jgrift
    Participant

    It is odd that the FX return goes away. But you could still set inputs from FX rack on two input channels. Then set a softkey as a select for the send. This would bring the rack up. I get the workflow thing, this could cover some of those issues. An explanation from A&H for why the FX return bus going away would be nice.

    #72830

    True, but if I went that route, I’d want to just swap all my FX returns to input channels, which means I’d need to burn a lot of assignable buttons to make that useful. I am equally curious about the return disappearing. If not in use, it would be nice to be able to repurpose those returns as more sends.

    #72838
    Profile photo of Jgrift
    Jgrift
    Participant

    Yes unfortunately you would need to burn some buttons. The great thing about the Dlive is how flexible it truly is. On something like a Yamaha or Digico you wouldn’t have any choice in the matter.

    The Dlive gives you “free” fx return channels. Meaning they are not included in the 128 input channels. However as your running into those channels are not fully featured (missing dynamics). But like on any desk you would wouldn’t be able to reuse an FX return (which is an input) as an output buss. Your mention of the FX return being the extension of the FX output…Its the extension of the FX buss. As configured in the Mixer Config. Which can be configured however you want. FX send to FX input-FX output to FX return. Which is, Buss to FX input-FX output to input. Digital or analog its all the same. The only difference with Dlive is that they are using busses specifically called FX sends. Which on most other console is just an aux. It does the same thing.

    If you wanted to go the old school route then you could patch in FX rack input from a Aux buss (Which gives you full processing) then return on a channel, in your case 2. This is how almost all other digital desk operate. Even a 150k PM10.

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