Live band using Ducking?

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jet1968 jet1968 6 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 30 total)
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  • #46624
    Profile photo of robbocurry
    robbocurry
    Participant

    Ducking probably added to benefit the raft of qu-pacs that are now heading for installs…..in those scenarios an essential feature.

    #46640
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Can the Ducking be used to turn off effects on a singers vocal mic when being spoken through by a client?

    #46642
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    Coffee. Ducker works from a triggered level from the key source. How would it know the difference in singing and talking other than level? In fact the singing would be louder which would trigger it sooner.

    #46643
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    I mean if I could operate it turning an effect off and on either by a foot switch/pedal or by walking over to the QU16 and physically turning it on (Thus not having to go through multiple pages/button pushes/fader moves to turn off effects during speeches on shared mics)?

    #46644
    Profile photo of robbocurry
    robbocurry
    Participant

    Just have the fx sends on a mute group then access via soft key ?

    #46700
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    If you use an iPad, you now have access to the 4 mute groups + 4 other soft keys (Qu-16). As RC says, assign the effects send to a mute group.
    I tend to try and give clients a separate mic, saves them changing the hight of mic stands & means I can change settings as they speak if needed without having to worry about getting it back to how the singer needs it. Still need to hit a mute/unmute button though!

    #46709
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    I’ll often use a radio mic for that – it just means fewer people to trip over the guitars…

    #46728
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    Ducking can be used for creative mixing tricks. For example – get a lead vocal channel to duck grouped backup vocals by a few dB to create separation in the mix without using more lead level (apply only when needed!), or use an entire vocal group to duck other competing mid range instruments (like guitars etc or even EVERYTHING else) again by a few dB only. If done sparingly and with correct attack/release times this can help a lot especially with a loud band and an undersized PA that is out of headroom for the vocals. Just like an announcer or DJ mic ducking music it’s about making space for what is important in the mix, and ducking can help do this automatically. Most people use positive mixing by turning things up to hear them in the mix but negative mixing can often work better – reduce whatever is competing with what you want to have up front.

    I’m on iLive’s so don’t have built in ducking (come on A&H Please!)- but you can create a ducker in iLive using a complex mix set up like this:
    Use the iLive signal generator fed into a DSP channel with it’s noise gate side chained to the source trigger channel to get a constant level (gated) signal, which is then used side chained into the compressor of the target channel to be ducked. Use the target channel compressor with a low threshold and use the ratio to set the amount of fixed gain reduction and release time etc, use the gate on the signal generator channel to set the ducking threshold. Unfortunately iLive side chaining only works in the same 8 channel DSP processing block (1-8, 9-16, etc) so all these channels need to be created within the same block.

    Happy Ducking!

    #46760
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Ducking can be used for creative mixing tricks. For example – get a lead vocal channel to duck grouped backup vocals by a few dB to create separation in the mix without using more lead level (apply only when needed!)

    Thats quiet an interesting idea as in my band we share lead vocals, then the one whose not singing lead vocals always harmonises.
    The issue with this is that both vocals are at the same volume, so sometimes the (What should be quieter) harmony is as loud as the main vocal. As we’re mixing it ourselves we cant really adjust volumes up and down for each song, so this MIGHT kind of work.

    The only issue is that I would have to walk over to the mixer after each change of lead vocals and turn the Ducker off/on for each of the two singers.

    Unless someone can figure out a better way of doing it?

    #46761
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I would suggest vocal acoustic compression. I.e. Back off the mic as needed to blend. Little taught technique that works 100% of the time. Too many singers thjnk the idea is lips on the mic regardless of their level or dynamic range. I have seen and worked with pro singers who at times would have the mic at their waist to achieve the right balance.

    #46762
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    Always remember this old basic rule.

    Sound mixes better in air than it does in electronics.

    #46772
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    Thats quiet an interesting idea as in my band we share lead vocals, then the one whose not singing lead vocals always harmonises.
    The issue with this is that both vocals are at the same volume, so sometimes the (What should be quieter) harmony is as loud as the main vocal. As we’re mixing it ourselves we cant really adjust volumes up and down for each song, so this MIGHT kind of work.

    The only issue is that I would have to walk over to the mixer after each change of lead vocals and turn the Ducker off/on for each of the two singers.

    Unless someone can figure out a better way of doing it?

    Again, NO.

    As far as I can see, most if not all your troubles are coming from application or mis-application of “technical” solutions to performance problems. You need to STOP with the band-aids and get to the root of the problem:

    You need to have all your mates and yourself learn how to play together without all the tech stuff before you can start using the gear to “enhance” and support a coherent performance. If the drummer is too loud, either have him play at an acceptable level or find someone who can. Same with the guitars, basses, whatever.

    As to the lead/backing vocal stuff (especially with just two people), just do it right in the first place. Backing vocalist should know how to sing at a backing level.

    It’s not the hammer, it’s the carpenter…

    #47135
    Profile photo of jet1968
    jet1968
    Participant

    Tried the ducking feature last night and it worked a treat with the rock trio I was engineering for, just had it on the guitar ducked by the lead vocal. Normally I have to ride the guitar fader a lot with this band but the ducker made it a lot easier once I’d got the settings dialled in…
    Also loving the PEQ Q width slider on the Qu-pad app !

    #47138
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Tried the ducking feature last night and it worked a treat with the rock trio I was engineering for, just had it on the guitar ducked by the lead vocal. Normally I have to ride the guitar fader a lot with this band but the ducker made it a lot easier once I’d got the settings dialled in

    Thats a very intersting use of a ducker.

    #47139
    Profile photo of jet1968
    jet1968
    Participant

    There’s only one guitarist and he plays both rhythm and lead, lots of twiddly solo bits in-between the lead vocal lines, so the ducker was keeping his level down underneath the lead vocals and a fast release brought him back up when the singer backed off the mic

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