Input/Output with effects to different DAW channels

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of whatsoup whatsoup 3 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #72813
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    This is probably me overlooking something simple, because I am completely new to all this, but I’m having trouble setting up the I/O of the SQ to include effects of the desk and route to separate channels into my DAW.

    I’m pretty sure I’ve got Reaper set up properly, because I can route to separate channels fine when I use the ‘Ip Direct Out’/ ‘USB’ page, but this won’t record effects of the desk, even with ‘direct out’ settings under the ‘routing’ page set to ‘post delay’.

    The only way I have worked out to record SQ effects into the DAW is if I tick all the ‘Main L’ and ‘Main R’ boxes in the ‘Mix out’ section, for all channels, but this obviously wipes all my previous ‘Ip direct out’ routings to individual DAW channels.

    I messaged support a month or two ago who mentioned using the ‘Rack FX’ page, but I might be going down the wrong path with that, as it seems I can only route one Rack effect to each channel.

    I’ve been putting up with using the Main L and R method up until now, but that means everything comes through one stereo channel, but with all the effects I need – great – but I’ve finally gotten some time to try routing them all to their respective DAW channels, but with all the effects I need.

    Any advice appreciated!

    #72867
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    So you set the input channels source for the USB connection to “post delay” and expected that to include effects you are sending to the FX units by using the FX buttons above the mix buttons?

    If you want to have the channels recorded with FX on that channel, you need to use the insert function of the channel to get an FX in the channel. But as you seemingly got told by the A&H this will use one FX per used insert. I suggest recording in multiple goes, so you can redistribute the FX inserts for the next go. Or just use VST effects. Many of them are better than what digital mixers offer in terms of quality.

    If you want to record the result of the FX separately in your DAW you have to route the FX outputs to the USB connection, but you will have EVERYTHING the FX engine outputs on those channels. So if you send like three vocal signals and a keyboard to FX 1, the output will be the FX only mix of those three vocals and the keyboard, inseparable.

    #72909
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    So you set the input channels source for the USB connection to “post delay” and expected that to include effects you are sending to the FX units by using the FX buttons above the mix buttons?

    I only mentioned this because it’s what others here seemed to think was the solution to my problem in another thread. I have since learned it doesn’t make a difference, but thought I’d mention it to avoid repetition.

    You are right, using an insert effect does get recorded to routed DAW channels, but like you say, this limits me to one insert per channel, and only 4 for the entire scene.

    I find myself using lots of send effects, so I guess I have to accept I will have to record everything to one stereo channel and forget individual channel routing, unless I do several passes or use DAW effects, if I am understanding you correctly..

    Could there be a cheap solution to route individual physical outputs from the desk back into the computer to record as separate channels, or would this require me buying another expensive x16 audio interface?

    #72911
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    Why? You just have to route the RackFX outputs to the USB connection. That way, you can record the output of all eight FX units separately, but it will cost you 16 record channels. I still don’t know how exactly you want to work. Are you recording live music with the SQ or do you playback already recorded channels or sound created by virtual instruments to be mixed with the SQ and then recorded back into your DAW? Or…?

    #72922
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    I think the confusion here might be between channel/signal processing and effects units.

    There are 48 input channels with full processing and 8 stereo FX engines, these are separate parts of the system.
    When using an FX engine, you are not using multiple instances of the same effect, you are (in Mix->Return mode) combining multiple channels and sending them to the FX engine mixed together.
    Therefore you cannot have a direct out of a channel that includes the effect without using inserts.

    Just to clarify, the ‘Post Delay’ option on a direct output means post millisecond channel delay, as opposed to post delay effect.
    It might be useful to check out the system block diagram on page 5 of the technical datasheet (https://www.allen-heath.com/media/SQ-5-Technical-Datasheet.pdf).

    Hope this helps!
    Keith.

    #72933
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    I still have no idea what the intention is…

    recording multiple tracks will lead to multiple tracks in the DAW
    and it doesn’t matter what these tracks are… inputs, mixes, matrices or masters

    this could be a sum of all the FX in an group, single FX returns or a stereo mix with all signals mixed including FX
    and it is still possible to record the channels itself without FX

    #72937
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    Sorry if I am not explaining myself properly. I am not trying to do anything out of the ordinary; I am just trying to split everything that comes out of the desk to individual channels into the DAW, while those channels use, share and record more than one send effect at the same time. At the moment, it’s all being recorded dry

    What I am gathering from Jens’ post, it is possible, I am just not routing things properly in the ‘Rack effects’ section in the input/output section.

    I take it I should be giving each rack effect its own left and right USB channel, which I have done, I am just missing the next step; each channel is still correctly coming into its respective DAW channel, but I’m still getting dry recordings

    #72938
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    So, I’ve created a new DAW channel to record the newly created USB channels I’ve just assigned to the rack effects. The latter half of Keith’s post makes more sense now, in that once a channel goes into a send effect it has to come out as one channel, is that right? I always understood sends were shared effects, but silly me thought it was possible to re-route back out to individual channels once it had been through the send. If that is correct, that’s fine, it just makes organising things a bit harder, but that I can live with. It’ll be certainly better than having it all come through one channel for entire tune. Please correct me if I’m wrong, and thanks for clarifying

    #72939
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    Yes, as said, each effect units send bus is a mix of all channels you send there by selecting the FX mix and pushing up the input channel faders you wish to get there. This mix will be processed by the FX engine as a whole. There is no way to separate this mix afterwards. So you can create up to eight mixes of effects and record them separately from the dry input channels.

    But then again, why even bother recording the SQs effects? As also said, there are very good effects plugins for your DAW, which you can adjust even after recording. Often enough effects don’t play out as intended in a mix, especially after listening to it on other speakers. So having the effects NOT fixed in a recording is a good thing.

    #73028
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    But then again, why even bother recording the SQs effects? As also said, there are very good effects plugins for your DAW, which you can adjust even after recording. Often enough effects don’t play out as intended in a mix, especially after listening to it on other speakers. So having the effects NOT fixed in a recording is a good thing.

    You make some good points against recording the effects but I try avoid touching the computer as much as possible; it only drags me out of my workflow, as much as I can see the benefits of what you say.

    At least I record both dry and wet signals at the same time to have my options over. Thanks for the help everyone 🙂

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