group vs auxiliary modes

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of gunzy gunzy 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #80760
    Profile photo of jdugger
    jdugger
    Participant

    In section 12.3 of the SQ-6 documentation, the ability to select between group and auxiliary modes is presented.

    What I cannot find is a practical definition of the difference between these bus types, and why I would select one over the other.

    Does anyone have a simple explanation?

    #80762
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    auxiliary mixes can get the channel signals from pre fader or post fader and you can set the volumn of each channel on that auxiliary mix individually. for stereo auxiliaries you can set the pan individual from the main pan.
    For (sub)groups you only can define which channel will be member of that group (using the assign button). they will allways be post fader and you can neither set the level nor the pan indiviual.
    The difference ist the same as non analog consoles. Auxiliary mixes uses individual rotary potis and switches for pre/post faders but for subgroups you only can decide whether the channels is routet to that group or not.

    #80765
    Profile photo of jdugger
    jdugger
    Participant

    Thank you.

    So, groups are essentially the same as the old 24-bus tape assign switches, and auxes are, well, aux submixes.

    #80769
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    Thanks for answering this; I was wondering myself. I’m trying to see a benefit or use for using groups instead of auxes. I see the mixer is letting me tip the balance to 12 auxes and zero groups. I’m sure somebody has a use for groups instead of auxes but I’m not experienced enough to see why they would want to, any ideas?

    #80771
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    I am using groups …hmm… well to group signals. One standard is a vocal group or a brass group. There i can use a summing compressor which works for the whole vocal group instead of each single voice. Stuff like this….

    #80778
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    A group is a mix of channels that can be processed as a whole and then sent to the main LR mix and/or an aux.
    An aux is an auxiliary output (auxiliary in relation to the main LR mix) which allows a completely separate mix to be created, though can also include some aspect of the main mix, such as post fade levels.
    A matrix is a mix of mixes.

    Some examples might be:
    Group – all drum mics to one group, all backing vocals to one group
    Aux – a monitor mix, a mix for a secondary room
    Matrix – a recording mix, reinforcement speakers such as fills

    Hope this helps!
    Keith.

    #80783
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    Thanks for the clarification, Keith. This is all fairly new territory for me and I have been wondering how to compress multiple (USB) drum channels all at once. I currently have them all going to an Aux, which I added a compressor to, but I noticed I had no audible feedback of the compressor, but it would record into the DAW correctly. I take it groups is the way to then for this situation?

    #83090
    Profile photo of Joor
    Joor
    Participant

    Hi Keith

    I have tried to set up two floorwedges in stereo L/R from aux 1 and 2, but i cant get them to play in stereo. I have set the aux 1 and 2 in stereo-mode in the “mix stereo” tab under setup meny. So how about the I/O section? I assume i need to patch four blocks? Options here are: Aux 1 Left, Aux 1 Right, Aux 2 Left, Aux 2 Right. And then the physical aux 3 ouput on the mixer will be from 5, in top of the I/O screen?

    #83091
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    Sounds good so far.

    Be aware that the Pan of the Aux busses does not follow the Pan of L&R – you need to set each one. This may be why you’re not getting stereo.

    #83093
    Profile photo of Søren Steinmetz
    Søren Steinmetz
    Participant

    If you have set up Aux 1 as stereo, you need to patch it in the I/O to two output sockets (eg. output 1 and 2)
    then Aux 2 would be output 3 and 4

    After all, to get a stereo output you need to patch both left and right channels 😉

    #83593
    Profile photo of gunzy
    gunzy
    Participant

    I just mixed my first church service yesterday, and I used groups instead of AUX.

    My flow is that all input channels are sent to various groups, and then the groups are sent to Main LR.

    I also sent group outputs to the ME’s, and only realized during service that groups are only post-fader. All fader actions affected the signal sent to the ME’s

    So in order for the ME’s to get a pre-fader output of the group (what I have set right now), I should re-configure the groups as AUX, is this correct?

    A follow on question is that groups should only be used as an internal submix where the output is generally dedicated to 1 output, is this correct?

    Regards
    Millan Choi

    #83594
    Profile photo of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    To answer Gunzy’s question.. Generally speaking, you’ll want to use pre-fader aux sends for monitoring applications and groups where processing is needed on groups of channels, like compressing a drum group before sending to FOH. You can also send a channel’s direct out to the ME unit. You can send direct outs for things like lead vocal that you might want to be able to adjust separately and you could send pre-fader aux mixes of background vocals and maybe drums if you need to. Using aux sends with the ME unit would be a good way to simplify the channels being sent, and also a way to fit lots of channels into the 16ch version of the ME unit.

    #83597
    Profile photo of gunzy
    gunzy
    Participant

    Michael,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I have both ME-500 and ME-1’s where the ME-500’s are used by musicians with less time (and desire) to tweak what they hear.

    Is there anything that groups can do that can’t be done by an AUX?

    Millan

    #83607
    Profile photo of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    Millan,
    Yes, a group can be routed to L/R. That is the biggest difference.

    Other than that, a group is a quick On or Off assignment that follows your L/R mix, compared to aux sends that don’t get routed to L/R and typically they have a different balance than your L/R mix.

    #83617
    Profile photo of gunzy
    gunzy
    Participant

    Michael,

    This makes things rather annoying…

    Let me explain. I originally planned on having all channels routed to groups, then to MAIN LR, and also a mixture of groups and channels to ME’s.

    Because of the issue with groups being unable to send pre-fader to ME’s, the other option is using AUX’s. However, AUX’s cannot route to MAIN LR.

    Option 1: Use a mixture of AUX and groups to achieve the proper separation in mixes between MAIN LR and ME’s. However with only 12 mix buses, this will present a problem.

    Option 2: Switch from groups to AUXes, and also have channels directly route to MAIN LR. The AUX signals can then be routed to the ME’s without affecting the MAIN LR, but the volunteer sound engineer will need to control multiple mixes. DCA’s can still be used on the channels for MAIN LR mix to batch control the channels.

    Does this sound right?

    Millan

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