Global 48v switch

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of BillC BillC 6 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #45903
    Profile photo of BillC
    BillC
    Participant

    Hello,

    From the home page, have a global 48v on/off. I prefer to not plug/un-plug active devices with power applied. Stepping through and switching each channel with 48v on is cranky.

    #45906
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    To globally switch off phantom power after show you may use a Scene recall with filter set up allow only Preamp restore (also resets gain, of course)…

    #45910
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Either turn the channel off before replugging, or if you are mass replugging you could turn the desk off 😉

    #45914
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I have been working on all kinds of consoles for over 40 years. I don’t remember ever seeing one with a master 48vdc(except maybe on the remote power supply) and individual. It is either one or the other or groups of 4 or 8.

    While the reason is understandable there are ways to work around it as mentioned.

    #45916
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    Thing is, on a big old analogue desk, it only took a few seconds to (un)press all the physical phantom buttons in a row above the gain. With a digi desk it’s a longer process especially when you need to hold the phantom button for a second.

    Personally, it’s a function I’d welcome. If it could be done separately for local & remote (AR) inputs, so much the better.

    I think scenes still offer many more things than I consider them for at the moment Andreas. I’ll have a look at that idea.

    #45917
    Profile photo of Wil Riker
    Wil Riker
    Participant

    @gcumbee: A master switch for phantom power is usual on almost all small analogue mixing desks. I’m happy that the Qu-16 and all professional desks don’t have one and I cannot see the need for this feature. Damaging a microphone by plugging it in or out while phantom power is activated is an urban myth ;-). For preventing popping noise I simply mute the output.

    #45918
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    Not to argue but that is just not the case. Usually it is either a master switch or individual or groups of channels. I have sold and used consoles all over. I am pretty sure I am correct. You quote a particular model if you choose. I was talking in general. I have owned two analog desks many years ago that had no phantom switching. It was just all on all the time.

    #45919
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    on small desks it is ONlY the master
    On larger desks it is ONLY a per channel
    On middling desks it is in batches of 4-8 (ish)

    On digital desks there is no reason to limit it to one switch per channel, but the act of plugging in a mic surely is no more damaging than turning on the phantom anyway…

    #45920
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    act of plugging in a mic surely is no more damaging than turning on the phantom anyway…

    I won’t bet on this one for simple technical reasons. When powering phantom on with microphone connected, hot and cold side rises in parallel, keeping the delta voltage between them small. Remember that microphones produce voltages within a mVolts range.

    Plugging a mic with phantom power already on there is no guarantee that both sides are connected concurrently, so it is very likely that both, microphone and mixer input, will see a big delta voltage across hot and cold side, which indeed may harm either side (from latchup effects). If your microphone has a transformer, things getting worse, since capacity from the cable and the transformer may create a short transient way above 100V…

    I prefer to switch off phantom power when plugging and never had an issue (contrary to some friends not caring about phantom power)…

    #45921
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I can only speak from over 40 yrs of experience even before we even heard of phantom power. I have done live shows all over the country with all kinds of consoles. I have owned and sometimes operated 2 different pro studios in KY and still in Nashville. Have never damaged a mic or console input to my knowledge by plugging/unplugging mics with or without phantom on. Pops yes. Damaged speakers? Yes in one case that I am pretty sure of. Damaged to a ribbon mic? Not to my knowledge and I own a few inc old RCA models. Best to turn off when not in use or when changing sources. Anything can happen.

    #45924
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    In 40 years of servicing this industry I have never damaged any microphones’ from plugging into live phantom or damaged speakers.
    Had the usual pops… ghastly of course.
    And always noticed the better quality more expensive desks seems to diminish that problem.
    The turning on/off of phantom per channel is slower than analogue desks but maybe that’s a blessing?
    Gives you time to look and think… o’ oh, that’s the wrong channel I’m in?
    before switching on/off.
    These days I tend to leave that to my monitor engineer as he/she is right at the stage.
    I don’t see the need on 24 channel desks upwards the requirement for global phantom switching. Maybe as an option on a Tab somewhere?
    And 16 channel desks in a small studio environment would surely want to control what is phantom powered. ?
    There are always exceptions to every rule!

    #45927
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Yes, 40 years… I can add another (nearly) 40 years experience in electronics and saw many unexpected things happend any even more stupid designs. I only state that from a technical side a (very) little risk remains in particular configurations which may harm something. I also forgot turning off phantom power lot of times and never had any problem, though…

    #45928
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    btw… Yamaha has implemented it in different ways, they had even on larger boards a global phantom power switch as addition to the individual switches in the channel section.
    It was helpful in on situation only. To have two desks with splits on one stage box So you can turn the slave (FOH) completly off in festival situation, so all patching and switching was done on stage.
    I personal used the master switch twice in my life. Last time was 2006.

    #45932
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I’m in favour of at least a global Turn Off switch!

    However I’m also in favour of a GO BACK ONE STEP OR UNDO!
    For those times you are either on the wrong layer or in the wrong channel. :+)

    #45934
    Profile photo of BillC
    BillC
    Participant

    Hey Steffen, It is Yamaha that got me on this… On my day gig we have several stages with Yamaha M7’s and the SOG is phantom on after wiring. If you have a PFL on your headphones/monitors can take a good hit. If any of you guys had the original MixWizard, this was a huge problem.

    I have also been at this game since the early 70’s, and have to admit I can only think of one time a damaged component may have been attributed to a switch with phantom on.

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