FX applied to FOH and Mixes

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of BLKGHOST BLKGHOST 6 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #43257
    Profile photo of Jkurk1983
    Jkurk1983
    Participant

    Hey guys I’m new in here after being given the responsibility of learning a QU32 for an artist I’m playing with.
    I’ve had it about a week and have another week before rehearsals begin with it. I’m pretty pleased to say I’m getting around it fairly well for my first experience operating a digital board.

    One thing I’m stuck on.

    I’m looking at how to control FX in various ways and through multiple outputs.
    First I’m looking to have a reverb that can be applied to multiple channels.

    So I added a reverb to FX1 using the Mix>Return and the input set at FX1.
    So for FOH I bring up FX1 send and FX1 return in Layers, then by selecting FX1 in the mixing section I can bring up any
    of the channels to apply that effect. When the fader goes down the effect goes with it in Post Fade. That makes sense to me.

    Then I select Mix 9-10 feeding one set of IEMs and bring up FX1 Send and FX1 return in the layer section and bring up the same channel. I have the effect applied there as well. However, if I pull that channel completely out of Mix 9-10 the reverb is still present in the Mix. The only way I can get rid of it is by pulling the master fader down for that Mix, which won’t work because then I have no mix anymore…or by turning the FX1 return down in Mix 9-10 layers section which won’t work because then I can’t apply that effect to any of the channels in the mix anymore….or by turning the channel fader down in the Main LR section which won’t work if I’m also running FOH.

    So basically here’s what I want to do hopefully you guys can help guide me here. I’ve looked through the book several times and there’s really nothing on YouTube. Again I’m new to digital boards but so far I’m learning pretty quick.

    For the most part this board is gonna be monitors only. The whole band on IEMS. I don’t anticipate having to use a lot of FX but I need to know them in case. The singer she will want reverb on her vocal. The rest of us might want to hear that too in our mix. Perhaps an acoustic guitar could use some as well. If I setup a scene with effects in our monitors I don’t want them to be effected if we have to also run FOH somewhere.

    Any guidance is greatly appreciated. What do you guys do?

    Thank you
    Jason

    #43258
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    Just sounds like you are on Pre fader on the fx sends to mix 9-10. Go to channel while in Fx mode and press the green pre/post button on left side. On is pre. Off is post. Hold button down and see if select switches are lit.

    #43260
    Profile photo of Jkurk1983
    Jkurk1983
    Participant

    In FX1 all the channels are not lit for Pre Fade. They are lit for Pre Fade in Mix 9-10 section

    #43264
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I thought that was it. Maybe not. I won’t be back to my console till tomorrow so can’t reproduce it.

    #43265
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Can I try to rephrase, might make it easier for you to tell me where I’m wrong…
    You are pushing channels 1 and 2 to the FX

    In Mix 9/10 you want to take only the FX from Channel 2

    That can’t be done – what is fed to the FX is defined by the FX mix feed, and you can then choose how much of the FX return (which is the result of everything fed into that mix) to put into a mix (in this case 9/10).

    The only way to separate the two Channels FX out is to use two FX units – the good news is that if these are single channel FX you don’t need to use a dedicated FX mix, you can use the Channel -> Return option in the FX unit (this may only be a benefit for the QU16, I can’t recall the FX setup on other QUs offhand)

    #43271
    Profile photo of Jkurk1983
    Jkurk1983
    Participant

    I’m sorry being new to this it’s easy for me to get confused.

    This is exactly what I want to do right now:

    I want to be able to add reverb to a vocal and perhaps an acoustic guitar. We’ll call it Channel 1 Vocal and Channel 2 Acst.

    I want to add reverb to those channels in the Mixes for IEMS. I don’t want it to affect the FOH output for those channels if in use.

    Hopefully that describes my situation pretty close.

    #43273
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    Can’t you just unassign the fx return to Mix LR?
    Go to top layer where returns are. Press the Mix LR button on right. Master fader. Press Assign and deselect the green button on the fx return in use. It should still be on your IEM mix.

    #43274
    Profile photo of Jkurk1983
    Jkurk1983
    Participant

    gcumbee…that does kill the effect from the Main LR, however it’s still the master fader for the track that controls the effect on that channel in the mixes.

    So I’m narrowing it down. I have reverb set as FX1 for the input and Mix>return (Channel>return does the same thing) for the return. The control for the level of FX on a channel is being routed to that channels main LR fader. Like it’s Pre Fade. Even with Mix LR unassigned I still have to use the master fader to control the level of effect in the MIXs thus compromising FOH if its being used

    #43275
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    So you’ve got two FX defined – FX1 for Vocal, FX2 for Guitar.

    These are set as either mix -> return or channel -> return but NOT as insert.

    Then you turn down the FX *return* in the LR mix, and turn it up in Mix 9/10 – and the signal comes out of FOH?

    The send will likely be Post Fade by default (since that’s “normal” for FX), so you put the Vocals up in the FOH and the FX send goes hot, and the FX return gets a (wet) signal.
    That signal should not go to FOH if the FX Return is down on the FOH mix – if it is, then that’s a serious bug (not one I can test at the moment). It should be possible to put the signal to Mix 9/10 (select mix 9/10 and then raise the FX return fader) without pushing it to L&R.

    One thing to note is that you aren’t technically applying the FX to the channel, you’re just mixing in an amount of the FX return – The FX might only be fed by one channel, but the only way that the FX is “applied to a channel” is if it is inserted, and I’m pretty sure you’re not doing that (but since that puts the FX into the channel you can’t then split it back out).

    #43276
    Profile photo of BLKGHOST
    BLKGHOST
    Participant

    The good way to control the amount of FX in a mix, is by using the FX Return (it controls the dry/wet ratio). The FX Send is the same for all the mixes. This is the master fader for an FX. To do what you want, you’ll need to use 2 or more FX units (one per mix.

    I’ll try my best to explain :

    You press FX1 and raise CH1, CH2 and CH3 – This is now your wet signal from FX1 press PAFL and listen to it. This is what you’ll be mixing into other mixes using the FX Return fader (ratio). You cannot have another wet from FX1. The FX Send fader controls the volume of you wet.

    You go back to Main LR and raise the FX1 returne halfway – You are now mixing the wet CH1, CH2 and CH3 signal to the Main LR mix
    You go in Mix1 and raise the FX1 Return You are now mixing the same wet CH1, CH2 and CH3 that you first created to the Mix1

    You cannot have a different wet for CH1 unless you use FX2

    #43278
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    …technically no difference to an analog console with four FX units in the siderack…

    #43286
    Profile photo of Andy
    Andy
    Participant

    Hello,

    As there was said before, in this case there’s no difference between analogue and digital desks. You have to understand the signal flow, to get the results you want.

    Take a look at your signal flow step by step:

    You adjust your microphone channel (gain, EQ, dynamics, pan, volume in the main mix), and send a certain amount of it’s signal post fader into FX1. You bring up the FX1 return fader, and you hear the effect in the main mix. By adjusting the channel fader, you also adjust the amonutof the effect send signal. When you bring the fader down, there’s no EFX send, and therefore no effect. So far, so good.

    Then you set your mix for output 9/10. You adjust the volume of your microphone, and then the volume of the FX1 return. Now you bring down your microphone fader, and you still hear the effect. And here comes the point, I think, you missed. The FX send is dependent of the position of the microphone fader in the main mix. Changing the volume of this microphone in any other mix (except FX1 send of course) will have no effect to the FX1 send. That’s why you hear the same amount of FX return, regardless, where the fader in this certain mix is.

    That is absolut normal “behaviour” of your mixer 😉 I can’t think of any way to get an FX send “post to aux send”, it’s always “post send to main or group”

    If you insert the FX device in this microphone channel, the amount of dry/wet will be the same in all monitor sends, and therefore the volume of the EFX will follow the volume of the microphone, but you have to bear in mind, that then all sends (monitors, groups, mains) will have the same dry/wet ratio.

    I hope, I understood your problem, and could show, why the mixer does, what it does

    Andy

    #43790
    Profile photo of knga
    knga
    Participant

    Hm, I got kinda lost in all those posts. So what’s the easiest way to add FX1 (reverb) to channels you want on monitor mix 7/8, if I want it to be separate from LR mix.

    Right now I use Alt out to feed our IEM system, so I hear same amount of FX, as it is going out of speakers. What if someone would decide, he wants more effect on his vocal? How exactly you do this? When you press FX1 button on right side, those faders represent amount of fx send to channels on LR? So what about 7/8?

    Thanks!!

    #43792
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    Look in the manual and check out the FX return routing options. I just insert a reverb on a Mix, but if you want individual channel ‘verb level control you’ll want to do a Mix return. You’ll have to decide how you want to allocate the available FX and routing options.

    In the end it’s an exercise in compromise…

    #43794
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    If you want, you can substitute one or two ambience mics to pick up room sound instead of burning a ‘verb for the IEM’s. That way you can apply different “presence” levels to any of your IEM mixes.

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