Future product request CQ24/SQ4

[petrav]

I currently own a QU16 and CQ18T.
Both are really great products but they don’t hit “my” sweetspot.

My use-case:
Live videoproductions for local tv or regional events. Typically limited to vox (interviews, panel discussions, singer-songwriters)

QU16
– has been my goto mixer for 8 years but it’s becoming dated (lower bitrate, chuncky/heavy). Need to drive twice to the venue because of the bulkiness
– still using it for the occasions (20%)with a band and/or multi instrument singer songwriters. Love the stagebox ability.

CQ18T
– using this now 80%
– it’s perfect as I’m more focussed to video so all the assists are such an improvement.

Yamaha DM3
– don’t want to buy it, but haa the ability to replace the QU16 and is a contender because:
– processing on par with CQ
– physical faders, which I would like to have with bands
– dante & stagebox possible.
-the UI and workflow is missing the Allen & Heath sause.

Now, I love Allen & Heath so this is more a message for AH to come up with a product that would make it perfect for me.

It should be a combination with CQ (brains, ease of use, UI), SQ faders (9) and expension.
But the same dimensions as the DM3. And dante and expension possibities. Prefer it to have 24 channels. 16 on the back.

That’s why I call it CQ24F or SQ4

Would others also appreciate this future product?

[Hugh]

There has been a plethora of requests to upgrade/improve the capabilities of both the SQ & CQ lines. In both cases the requests fall within two catagories: either better advanced processing or access to more inputs with expansion stage boxes. The core XCIV processor is the internal control of the width & speed of all of the FPGA processing. These limitations are the designed lanes for all of the A&H lines and the capabilities of each product line is carefully calculated to meet a specific percieved market demand.

Tactile Controls VS Mixing on Glass is a very nebulous question that always gets back to end use needs. A set up & leave it Bluebgrass band may not need knobs and faders however any theater production or musical performance that requires constant manipulation will absolutely require full tactile controls.

The CQ,SQ, Avantis & D-Live all offer 24/96K performance however the WIDTH of the core will determine max inputs while the SPEED of the core determines the depth of all processing options.

There is pretty close to universal agreement pursuant to the surperior overall sonic quality of the A&H 24/96K FPGA processing available with the CQ thru the D-Live; however most all of the discontent I read in these threads deals with either missing bells & whistles, or asking for advanced processing that is available with more advanced A&H product lines.
Acurately accessing your needs is never an easy or quick process however it is an absolutely essential prerequsite to intelligent console investment. For novice beginners A&H offer the CQ line to get your feet wet with out needing a second mortgage on your house to pay for it. This is why the CQ is the best entry level value available to advance user experience and better understanding of the real needs of any specific start up work flow.

MY A&H wish list is an advanced core processor that would accommodate up to 24 external inputs and the best Deep FX A&H has available. I would like to see an 8 fader with three 8 input layers with a Mix on glass option. There is a false assumption that big input counts is where the primary market for high quality processing exists. IMO for every 64 to 100 channel production, dozens of 24 input, or less, practioners are waiting for the type of desk I am describing and many have the ability to pay for it.
Hugh

[petrav]

@hugh thanks for your insights and we are aligned, actually I believe we are pretty close in our ideal mixer.

[Brian]

That has to be the best written and most realistic post I have ever seen from Hugh! 😉

I will simply add that while there is nothing stopping us from asking A&H for certain features or talking about what our “prefect” console might look like, A&H will always make decisions based on what they feel is best for the company long term. Sometimes, that means withholding certain features for their higher end offerings. So while it is easy to cherry pick the best features or design specs we want and there is no real technological reason for A&H not to offer it, sometimes we just aren’t going to get what we want.

For example, I can’t imagine a scenario where A&H offers the full library of FX choices (or even a more limited offering of their “best” Deep plugins) that are offered in DLive in a console that only has 36 (or less) mixable channels. Even the Avantis (which likely has as much or more processing power than the DLive relative to it’s 64 channel count) will never have access to the full FX library that DLive has. It’s not because A&H can’t bring everything to Avantis, it’s the fact that they don’t want to. It’s not limited to FX plugins either. There are simply going to be certain FX plugins and/or other functionality that won’t be available on anything but the highest flagship system offered in order to drive sales to the flagship product. It’s as simple as that.

[petrav]

I hope I waa clear that I’m really happy with my CQ and QU systems. I know AH will do the best for the company. My text was to provide customer feedback for them. I have the feeling this is interpreted like I’m not happy at all

[Hugh]

Brian is historically correct in ascerting the pragmatical industrial process of “Flagship product Protection”: however we must remember the William Deming revolution in the auto industry that was triggered by ‘Customer Demand” not Industrial past Protocols.

My contention has been centered around the fact that most consoles sold are deploying far less than 64 inputs and if the truth is to prevail, IMO. most SQs seldom ever approach their 48 channel limitation. The overwhelming majority of large format consoles deployed are with mega Church services with touring concert production in a not very close second place in sales. Restricting premium processing to only large format production that is a small fraction of the vast majority of desk sales is a horendous marketing mistake. Smart offerings of powerful processing in a 24 or optional 48 channel version small format desk like I have been describing for several years would broadly expand the A&H market share.

How many $300. Bricasti 7 plug-ins (seventh heaven pro) would sell thru A&H if the speed of the processor was sufficent to deliver that level of reverb magic? Customer driven marketing will always be much more sucessful that any other protocol. The question is whether or not there is a ‘High End Market” in small format desks? IMO the answer is yes!
Hugh

[Brian]

Hugh – That’s an interesting side visit to William Denning and the automotive industry. However I’m not sure it really supports your ideas. Mr. Denning is credited with making the automotive industry produce more reliable and better quality vehicles. But accomplished this by using statistical analysis to prove that producing better quality parts and vehicles was ultimately cheaper and more profitable than producing less reliable parts/vehicles like they had been. This is the primary reason why the US built cars of today are so much better than the cars built in the 1980s.

However that’s a far cry from saying we should have all the premium choices in more budget builds. In fact, the car industry is notoriously bad for forcing people to “upgrade” to higher trim packages to get one simple addon. Take leather seats for example…. you can’t buy a budget “trim” level and simply add leather seats. The industry forces you to purchase an expensive trim package with a bunch of features no one cares about in order to get the leather seats that you really wanted. They know that if they simply let people add leather seats al-la-carte, everyone would buy the cheapest trim level available and simply add leather seats for a relatively small cost. Instead, by limiting their most desirable items to just the most expensive trim packages, they make more profit. Sure they will loose out on some leather seat sales because some people will refuse to buy the expensive trim package, but it’s still more profitable to conduct business like they do.

[Hugh]

Brian- More reliable and better quality products is only part of the Deming management protocol. The critical element you are missing in Deming’s four elements of profound Knowledge is customer preferences. The four elements are Variability, Systems, Psychology & Theory of Knowledge: and all four are customer preference driven. The Auto industry in Japan spent a foutune in researching the real needs and wants of the worlds auto buyers and only then deployed critical design and quality controled manufactoring of the wanted features with happy employees. Deming’s protocol found enthusiastic support within the engineering community, however mostly rejection with the American auto managers that controled final decisions. The overwhelming sucess of Japan’s auto industry in thr early 80s led Ford to adopt the “Deming principles of mgt.” and it is now credited with saving the Ford motor co.

Brian, the Deming business model is absolutely applicable to A&H and futhermore their failure to recognize and pursue customer needs and wants pursuant to quality processing in all models is potentially an egregious business model failure!
Hugh

[petrav]

Well, I must admit that the CQ18T is a product I wasn’t expecting and am still really happy with this product that I didn’t know I needed. But like always it fuels desire for more. Hence my overview on improvement points towards what I call CQ24F or SQ4.

[Brian]

Hugh, I guess you are back to your normal rambling and inaccurate posts…. You should have stopped with your first post…..

“The critical element you are missing in Deming’s four elements of profound Knowledge is customer preferences. The four elements are Variability, Systems, Psychology & Theory of Knowledge: and all four are customer preference driven. ”

You got the four elements of Deming’s “System of Profound Knowledge”, but nothing else….. None of four elements deal specifically or are related to “customer preference”. They all have to do with how internal systems, processes, and teams work together the best way. Even the psychology portion of that doesn’t have anything to do with the psychology of “customer preference”. It’s simply teaching how workers are intrinsically motivated and how effective management can properly motivate employees to be the best version of themselves.

Think of it this way, the fact that customers like “blue” the best doesn’t improve how your systems, processes or teams work together in the most effective manner. Long story short, there is nothing about “Customer preference” that makes your systems, processes or teams work better/effectively which is the focus of the “System of Profound Knowledge.”

[Smilzo]

I like the simplicity of CQ. What I wish in a v.2 CQ…

1) More output (at least 5 stereo aux, and 2 stereo output – to drive different cabs or 2 rooms)
2) one istance of effect in each channel
3) sidechain (for compressor, eq, effect level, even level instead of AMM)
4) I have the cq18t, and hardly use the 3 left knobs. I don’t miss them if they were gone… the user screen interface is that good. Maybe replace them with buttons?

[Hugh]

Bryan, If you really understood the driving force under Deming’s teachings and corresponding auto sucess in Japan you would have to be aware of the fact that delivering what the people want, need and are willing to pay for is job #1. I have a lot of friends and family employeed by Toyota and have carefully followed their extensive market research that drives all product development. Unlike the American auto industry Toyota seldom if ever offer a market clunker! A careful reading of Deming’s “SYSTEMS” element says: The practice of deviding the company into separate business “Profit Centers” is not compatible with optimization of the system as a whole.
This is precisley the Flagship protection A&H is deploying in reserving advanced core processing speed for D-Live & Avantis. A faster core in a SQ5 could accommodate a “Seventh Heaven” type of reverb plug-in that I am more than willing to pay for. The fact of the matter, as I see it, is that large scale production console competition for A&H is at the other end of their corporate table: It’s Digico not SQ or CQ desks.
Hugh

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