Fixing voice – too wide DR – using AMM or compression

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This topic contains 71 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of volounteer volounteer 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 70 total)
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  • #85124
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @garyh

    Thanks. That might be what is needed. We were hoping to just use our Qu32 without buying more hardware.

    Maybe when they upgrade mikes by next summer in 2020 we could get that type.

    I had looked, not real hard yet, for mikes with built in AGC; but we may need to get external preamps to feed the channel strips.

    #85128
    Profile photo of Ryan
    Ryan
    Participant

    That 3rd bullet was straight from the soundonsound article you linked to, so don’t tell me you disagree, send an email to the author of the article.

    It’s a trade off, temporary mild discomfort with AC set colder before the service then to “normal” for the service, or less distracting noise during the sermon.

    To minimize noise in the preacher mic, get a directional headset mic like the DPA d:fine 4088, or a Shure WH20 so you can turn the mic up more before feedback (and compression to tame when the preacher decides to shout really loud).

    You’re saying the band is too loud, and the preacher is too soft, right? Does the preacher have their own microphone or are they sharing it with the band? If they have their own microphone, compress it and crank the make-up gain (to bring the compressed loud preacher voice up to or above where it was before, and soft parts will be louder than before because of the make up gain). Doing that will not make the music louder if the preacher has his own mic. If the music is too loud, compress the channels for the band. If the preacher and music are sharing a microphone, get the preacher their own microphone. Is the preacher talking at the same time as the band is playing? Turn down the band and/or turn up the preacher, or talk to the preacher and music director about the problems that causes and suggest changing things to not have the preacher talk while the band plays.

    The way it seems right now, upward compression is a magic cure that has been overlooked for years. Since you said you’ve implemented your own upward compression plugin, use that. Connect the mixer to your laptop using the USB port on the back of the mixer, and send the preacher mic to a channel on the DAW with your upward compression plugin, then send the output from the DAW back to a channel on the mixer and have that going to the main speakers in the room instead of the raw signal from the preacher’s mic. Then you can play around and see if upward compression helps solve your problem or not.

    Try also posting your question on reddit.com/r/livesound, there’s a bunch of people there whose job is making things sound good, and you’ll probably get faster responses.

    #85129
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @ryan

    Above my pay grade to control the HVAC settings.

    No noise in preacherman mike. Main guy works fine. It is fill ins and special outside talkers that are the problem.

    On rare occasions he talks while there is music happening too. But that is an option we could consider.

    No DAW at this time AFAIK. There is a PC attached used to run automatic slides, and hand controlled power points.
    We also have a CD player that plays prerecorded music. And a stand alone CD burner capturing everything in RT.
    The PC might on occasion be used to play music but I am unaware of that being relatively new here.
    The MD did mention something about using USB to play music once we got a USB stick formatted yesterday. It was a small USB2.0 and would not be big enough for recording. Not sure if it is big enough for playback either. But it should work to back up the show scenes and other settings.

    Have not used reddit. Will check that link out. Thanks.

    People have used upward compression for years. Usually they do it with parallel compression. I cannot find a spare channel to use to do that. Many people think parallel is the only way to do it so they call it parallel compression which it is but do not realise it is just one example of upwards compression.

    #85143
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    ***content removed – personal comment that does not contribute to the thread***

    It you want all the features you keep complaining the QU32 is lacking go buy a D Live and I am certain that would not even solve your problems.

    Many of us here, myself included have faced the “issues” you claim to have with an analog board and a handful of outboard processing and achieved good results that got us
    more work.

    It’s called running sound for a reason and you need to know how to do it, it does not
    magically happen with a piece of software or plug in.

    #85165
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    So, i want to summarize the situation at the moment.
    There is a noisy environment, some speakers with no or less microphone practice and probably also resistent to advice, an entry level mixer. We know nothing about the audio system but I am quite sure that neither the system nor the position of it is changeable.
    Hmm. I think someone is trying to square the circle.
    Imho only optimising the microphone handling and lowering down the noise level during the „show“ will solve the problem. No technical device can help. Even if the ominous „upward compression“ can be used, the gain before feedback will decrease dramatically. My experience over the years teaches me that any compressor technique won‘t help when the speaker do not use the microphone in a proper way.
    Just my 2cents

    #85169
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    As intimated in the two previous posts, when nothing you try is working there is a better than even chance that the problem lies with you.

    #85172
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    If the person speaking (or indeed singing) can not get enough volume going into the mic, compared to “unwanted” sound , then there is no technical solution.

    Maybe one day a computer will be able to separate the human voice from other sounds in real time and process it differently – but we ain’t there yet.

    #85174
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @markpaman

    That is not the problem. Not exactly.

    The problem is to get enough gain before feedback so the SPL from the room speakers is adequately higher than the BG noise.
    UPwards compressing the voice input would help solve the problem.

    #85175
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mfk0815

    gain before feedback will not change at all.
    no feedback problem when they talk louder so no way for upwards compression to cause feedback at all.

    #85176
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    ***content removed – personal comment that does not contribute to the thread***

    #85177
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    You just are not getting it!!! AT ALL!

    Person speaking louder/closer to a mic does not need as much overall gain in the system
    equals a more stable system..even if it’s a piece of crap.

    Person whispering two feet away from a mic needs a lot more system gain applied in an attempt to make them louder resulting in anything louder at the mic than the whispering voice gets amplified including the very sound of the sound system resulting in feedback.

    If your sound system is not properly tuned, rung out, Processed, Eq’d, deployed, a piece of crap or in any combination of those items your gain before feedback will be lower to non existent.
    There is only so much that can be done when you have a whisper talker with no clue about using a mic……AND THERE IS NO MAGIC PROCESSING THAT WILL TAKE THAT AND MAKE THEM SOUND LIKE A SMOOTH JAZZ FM RADIO DJ ON THE PA.

    I need to ask…how old are you, do you run sound anywhere other than in church on Sunday morning, do you personally own and operate a sound system, do you do sound production jobs for pay where failure is not an option?

    Owning some recording gear set up in your basement does not count for any of the above.

    #85179
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    gain before feedback will not change at all.
    no feedback problem when they talk louder so no way for upwards compression to cause feedback at all.

    This is just wrong.

    ***content removed – personal comment that does not contribute to the thread***

    #85182
    Profile photo of xyz
    xyz
    Participant

    @volounteer
    The gearslutz forum is another good place to find a way to discuss how you can solve your mixing issues.

    #85185
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    The gearslutz forum is another good place to find a way to discuss how you can solve your mixing issues.

    No more to discuss, anyone there who knows what their doing will tell you the same thing.
    Try Pro Sound Web with your same questions.

    Remember audio production tricks that work in a recording studio do not always work well in a live audio production set up.

    You never did say what the rest of your system was.

    #85238
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @Dick Rees

    ***content removed – personal comment that does not contribute to the thread***

    We have all the gain before feedback we need with the band screaming loud from the speakers on the ceiling.
    There is NO problem with people talking louder or even UPcompressing soft talkers at all as they will never reach the same levels.

    ***content removed – personal comment that does not contribute to the thread***

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