Faders not returning to position when switching banks

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of MartinM MartinM 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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  • #104457
    Profile photo of Ash
    Ash
    Participant

    Hi,

    I have an S7000 surface running firmware v1.9 for past 2 months with absolutely no issues until last week.

    When we change fader banks a couple of the channel buss faders go to INF as expected when switching to a bank where they are not assigned, but when returning back to layer A, these faders don’t return to the original position.

    For IEM mix bus master faders (we have these on layer B), when switching fader banks the IEM master faders stay on INF and don’t return, so the IEM mix gets muted. Switching back to layer B and reseting the faders back to 0 works, until you change layers again.

    It doesn’t seem to matter which layer you go to, the same set of faders always seem to go to INF and not return back.

    We do run the OneMix app, but on this occasion no band members were using the app at no time. We don’t run director. I have tried loading a different show file and same issue is present.

    We have had no issues prior to this with V1.9.

    Im thinking of rolling back to V1.87.
    Does anyone havbe any suggestions?

    I will download the system log files and take a video of the issue and send to A&H tech support.

    Thanks Ash.

    #104470
    Profile photo of Joe
    Joe
    Participant

    After we updated ours to 1.9, I noticed that the fader calibration was not right. (not sure if it was wiped or what)
    Anyhow, it seems fine after I recalibrated the faders.

    #104483
    Profile photo of Ash
    Ash
    Participant

    I performed the fader calibration and motor calibration twice.
    The fader issue still present. Reloaded an old show, issue not resolved.

    Any other ideas? May be replace or clean faders?

    #104495
    Profile photo of Samuel S
    Samuel S
    Participant

    Hi Ash,

    I’ve had a very similar issue with an SQ console. Two or three faders would go to -infinity when changing layers. I sent the console in for repair and the tech said there was excessive amount of dirt and debris inside the console.

    I paid somewhere between $300-500 USD for the repair. It hasn’t failed since. I don’t expose it to extreme environments, but I can’t deny that the SQ hasn’t been outside exposed to possible debris in the air…. I’m not sure what your working environment is like.

    #104576
    Profile photo of Colm
    Colm
    Participant

    Hi Ash
    We have c3500 and we had a stuck fader 2 months ago pre update.
    I was told that the whole fader bank had to be replaced.
    We paid for a new fader bank I did the install myself everything worked great .
    We did the update with no problems ,then last week the same problem happened .
    Same bank but different fader.
    The console is perfectly clean only 3 years old.
    We are very cautious about not leaving anything but the cover on the console
    I’ve been wondering if it’s a common problem.

    #105696
    Profile photo of Andy
    Andy
    Participant

    We have an S5000 and two C3500’s. All 3 consoles have the same issue. Started prior to 1.9 updates and the update did not solve the problem. A&H is looking at the history logs and a few videos I sent in. Hopefully a solution soon. I will update.

    #105697
    Profile photo of Jgrift
    Jgrift
    Participant

    Same issue here on an s7000.

    #105852
    Profile photo of zfuehring
    zfuehring
    Participant

    Same issue on C3500. Anyone see a fix for this yet? Had a major failure in a service today.

    #107444
    Profile photo of snwbrd830
    snwbrd830
    Participant

    Same issue here. Recently started happening and is affecting multiple faders on S5000. Board is a permanent install in a church. Covered 95% of the time and has never been been moved or transported since installed.

    They want me to send it in for repairs but I am not convinced this will fix the issues. Very frustrating.

    #107450
    Profile photo of Ash
    Ash
    Participant

    UPDATE ON OP:
    The fader issue started about 6 weeks after updating to 1.90 and still in warranty.
    I didn’t really think the firmware update could have been a factor. After 2 fader calibrations the fault persisted.

    Sent it in for service, they checked the cables and faders etc. No issues there.
    Eventually they updated firmware to 1.93, did a calibration on faders, and all working perfectly since.

    #108105
    Profile photo of magneticfield
    magneticfield
    Participant

    I am an operator of a C3500, I am not the owner, but I am the only person who has operated it since it was bought in 2017. Back then the firmware version was 1.42
    From the beginning I have always taken care of the equipment impeccably, so it should be noted that there has never been any mistreatment or carelessness.
    I am very happy with the sound of these mixing machines, but I have to be honest and question the durability of them, especially when compared to other brands on the market.
    After about 240 concerts distributed over a period of 3 years and taking care of the material as much as possible, the faders of the C3500 surface began to fail, most of them remaining tremendously inaccurate. I have never had the feeling that there could be a software/hardware fader failure relationship. After requesting a quote from the technical service, it was €800 + VAT (shipping not included) to change all the faders.

    My thought is that 240 concerts and taking good care of the material, is not even remotely enough to have to make a change of this magnitude. In any other brand, Digico, Yamaha, this happens, yes, I’m not going to say no, but at least after exceeding the figure of 1000 concerts!

    In another order of things, I have also had severe problems with the stage racks, although their operation has been impeccable, they are extremely sensitive to the smoke from the machines that are used to create an atmosphere with the lighting. In the show that I usually operate with the C3500, this type of smoke is used (I clarify that in reasonable quantities and always being of high quality) and also the physical location of the rack is always on one side of the stage and in the back, this way always remains the farthest from the stage. Even so, it seems that the smoke from the show seriously affects the electronics in the racks to the point that it destroys them permanently.
    At the end of 2018 a CDM48 was seriously affected by this problem, and all the electronic cards had to be replaced with a high repair cost.
    A little later, in 2020, when the pandemic began, the CDM48 system was once again completely unusable due to the same symptom, smoke from the stage that everyone uses for lighting and, consequently, it cost more to repair than to buy a new rack. All of this is tremendously frustrating. The solution was to buy a new CDM64. From then until now, everything seems to work fine.

    The point is that in any brand I have worked with, Digico, Yamaha, Roland, Soundcraft, Midas, I have never had this type of problem with smoke from the stage and with much higher numbers of concerts!
    My experience may scare other users or potential buyers, and it is not my intention, because both the software and the sound of these tables are excellent, but Allen & Heath, in my humble opinion, should reconsider these weak points, so that in the future nobody will have problems of this type.

    #110978
    Profile photo of MartinM
    MartinM
    Participant

    Hello, all! Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I’m really struggling. We have an S5000 at our church exhibiting this same behavior on about eight faders. If a fader is at +5dB on Layer A, and at -10dB on layer B, moving up to Layer A and back to Layer B will bring the fader on Layer B from -10 to +5. This is quite shocking when it’s the electric guitar in an otherwise balanced mix.

    Allen & Heath has offered next to know help. Their response was that I could ship the console back to Georgia, where it would be diagnosed, and then sit and wait for parts, as new consoles were being prioritized for those parts.

    This is A&H’s flagship console, and it’s in a church, where it spends 90 percent of the week covered. I expect more from a company as far as standing behind their product. I’m very disappointed, and not at all likely to recommend A&H to friends and colleagues—much less buy more of their products in the future.

    For reference, I am running version 1.96 of the firmware, and have run through the fader calibration multiple times. Has anyone else found anything helpful on this??

    #110980
    Profile photo of Nicola A&H
    Nicola A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi @MartinM

    I notice you said ‘ship the console back to Georgia’. Where are you based? We might have other distributors or service centres closer to you?
    Ultimately not all of our dealers are in a position to offer advance replacements or on-site servicing, but on the topic of spare parts, I can assure you that we have spare parts available to ship. If there’s been delays, they were due to component shortages, not to prioritising new consoles.

    Feel free to open a ticket with our UK team at support.allen-heath.com for advice on the best route to service. Or if you have a ticket already open, PM me the ticket number and I’ll look into it.

    #110987
    Profile photo of MartinM
    MartinM
    Participant

    Thank you very much, Nicola. I am beyond frustrated, as our console is bordering on unusable, and I am about ready to sell this and move on to DiGiCo.

    Yes, our sales rep directed me to talk to A&H Support, which I did twice. Whomever I spoke to there gave me the unhelpful advice of shipping the console back to Georgia. He offered no other solution, even when I asked about local service centers or onsite technicians. I’ve since found out that there is an A&H authorized service center about 30 minutes away.

    They offered to open a support ticket, but I declined because their solution was so unhelpful. I will give it another try, though.

    Is it possible for me to just buy 20 or so fader modules, and take our console to this local center to have them replaced? I’m not super concerned about voiding the warranty, as it hasn’t been helpful so far, and it expires in about six months anyway.

    Again, thank you for your help. You’re the first A&H rep (out of three) that has seemed concerned about this.

    #111052
    Profile photo of Peter
    Peter
    Participant

    We came up against this issue on the C2500 at our theatre, that fader’s repaired now but this thread got me thinking that the way a faulty fader is handled could be improved upon. The OP mentioned IEM mix bus faders being bumped down to -inf dB because the fader wasn’t moved to the correct position and this is exactly the kind of “oh s**t” moment I had mid show; in my case it was a balcony fill that got turned down on paying customers.
    It occurs to me that when a faulty fader doesn’t quite make it to the correct value or doesn’t move at all, the last thing you want the console to do is update that channel/bus with this new (and wrong) value. Wouldn’t it be great if instead, the console alerted the user that the fader didn’t make it, maybe the LED strip could start to flash or there could be some other visual sign that the fader hasn’t moved correctly. Crucially, the console should maintain the correct value and allow the operator to move the fader there if they want to, or ignore it if it doesn’t require adjustment. The user knows there is an issue but can remain confident that balcony fills and IEMs aren’t going to get turned down erroneously, then they can investigate if they’ve got a bad fader after the show.
    Not sure how other manufacturers deal with this as I’ve never come up against this issue on anything other than dLive. Maybe others here can think of downsides to what I’m suggesting but it would be great if A&H could come up with a way to solve this.

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