External midi direct connect

[Anonymous]

I need to send midi data from stage traxx 3 to the CQ via BT.
Easy with a PC and BLE midi adapter.
But can it be done without PC ?
I have the bomeBox in mind but does anyone know about another solution ?

[BobbyDazzler59]

willmodelisme.

Im not exactly on your midi track here, I have only recently fired up my CQ20B since last gig in March and that band failing, and have now upgraded firmware etc.
So my situation is trying to integrate a hardware mix controller (Akai MidiMix) into my system with the midi upgrade. I had this working previously via Mixingstation setup but was not happy with Mixing station appearance.
Anyway, I thought now CQ has midi, it should be a simple hack and up n running…..oh no……
I have been in comms with Luke at A&H help line and bounced a few ideas across n back, grasped an understanding etc. and at least got it working in experimental beta mode to test out functions and ideas before the long slog of a full control setup.

So as I have now got the conclustion is CQ is as told, passive, and does not interact directly with midi input as such, unlike keyboards and various devices we use tha become visible in our midi univers, the CQ seems to have its own version of raw midi in the controller aspect.

The controller puts out usual basic midi string with channel, controller number and parameter value.
The CQ uses NRPN strings, where its addressing with first 6 midi values and then MSB, LSB over next 6 values…yea its complicated.

Thats where the BOME come in with its translator, swapping basic controller outputs to Bome input, then outputting translated message to the CQ in NRPN format.

For this reason it has to be I guess either a PC or possible]y the BOmE box, of which I have no experience of, and I already use a laptop in my sound rig for interval DJ style music player.
I have found once you create some translations, they run in the background and I can use the laptop for its designated purpose.

As far as Bluetooth control, I dont think the CQ will work with any bluetooth other than music playback input. It wont output bluetooth as far as I know thus it wont have 2 way BT comms directly

Im going to investigate further with controlling the CQ via the hardware controller, it is unfortunately non motorised SO if you change a slider value on the CQ screens, the controller does not keep up, any movement of the hardware slider and the CQ value jumps to that of the hardware control.
BUT its only a baybe, the BOME translator pro has rules that can be written in eg If A = B then C etc. SO using the CQ midi GET command, you can read any available parameter/addressed control value, so MAYBE using this as a condition rule, the control slider will not move any CQ values until it equals that of the CQ, a software version of pick up value BUT only if you go in that direction, so its not entirely fool proof.

Lots to do and lots to explore for that optimum control playing live as well as my keyboards….

[Anonymous]

Hello Bobby and a great thank for you reply.
I felt a bit alone with my midi questions, but I am not alone now.
You more or less achieving the same conclusion then me, the need to use either a PC or the bomeBox.

For the other parts of your message, may I add extra input ?

The controller puts out usual basic midi string with channel, controller number and parameter value.
The CQ uses NRPN strings, where its addressing with first 6 midi values and then MSB, LSB over next 6 values…yea its complicated.

I find it to be not so complicated at the end.
With as software like Protokol you can read all the NRPN message send by the CQ.
If you device can send NRPN that is then easy to replicate.
If not, I use MidiOX as a free translator.

As far as Bluetooth control, I dont think the CQ will work with any bluetooth other than music playback input. It wont output bluetooth as far as I know thus it wont have 2 way BT comms directly

My idea is that the ipad connect via BT to a CME BLE midi adapter, this adapter is plugged into a pC or in a bomeBOX, both able to communicate with the CQ.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, for the price of the bomeBox, my old laptop can do it the same or even better.
But any other solutions, cheaper and without PC would be welcome.

[BobbyDazzler59]

Hi will……
To clarify, I have a fair grasp on midi and raw midi having created a number of control routines for my live rig/keyboards al patch controlled by setlist on iPad etc, initialisation routines, even raw midi to transpose three different keyboards etc. I would not say Im an expert all knowing, all answers. I create a problem to solve based on my needs at that time and work it thru using various tools on various platforms such as midiox on the laptop, but I also use mac, macbook iPad and occasionally android (phone)

I have so for with this project using Bome classic (the basic version) managed to link the hardware mute button to the CQ via translation.
Also created one preset containing 8 working slider translations. And have developed this to three presets of 8 effectively using the bank right left buttons giving 16 individual sliders in all with routines to activate/deactivate those presets in turn etc.
Just wish I could do that with the mute buttons, currently using 2 switching presets per button on/off etc.

A lot of this is very probable with conditional testing rules available in the Bome pro version, which is my next experiment when I have some time tween work stuff, visiting family this week, and new band material onslaught ( new band proj but not currently gigging) etc.
Lets keep the dialog going and maybe others can get involved or at least benefit from our investigations.

I might post some in depth guidance on a how to basis for others to get started.

As I said, Im still at the experiment stage, having figured out the basics of Bome, MidiMix midi message format and the CQ message format, and successful basic commanding of the CQ from MidiMix via a windows laptop, I need time to develop more in depth message control and translations of to get full understanding and thus some well grounded down to eath help for others.

I have read thru the CQ user info off A&H website and whilst it makes sense now, is almost a non starter from the outset to anyone not well trained in midi control, thus I would like to post practical examples with explainations as far as I can.
As Lucke at A&H said, there arena lot of parameters and any full descriptive manual would be hundreds of pages long.
So its basically down to self help I guess, armed with my findings so far, Im hoping a successful conclusion to the point of deciding if Inwant to actuall pay for Bome translator or just make do without the hardware control, tho having paid near a hundred quid for the controller, would be a waste.

As they say….WATCH THIS SPACE

Regards,
Rob.

[Anonymous]

Nice and very interesting reading, thank you for you time and your input.

From my side, and up to now, I managed to understand better how CQ midi works.
I can send and receive midi from a PC.

Speaking about external controller that are plugged to the PC, I have a DIY 8 faders, 8 pots, 10 encoder/switch based on Shantea controller.
It is fully programable and it can send NRPN, so it is easy to control the CQ.
I also figured out how to use any other external midi controller (also DIY, I build a lot) using midi OX translator, from CC or Note on/off to NRPN.

But I agree that we might have to always need to use PC or bomeBox btw external controller and the CQ.
So if something similar to bomeBox but cheaper comes out, that’ll be great.
For the time being, my old laptop is a great solution.

Thank you Bobby.

[SQuser]

@BobbyDazzler59
Please allow me to make the following point:

> I had this working previously via Mixingstation setup but was not happy with Mixing station appearance.
If the latter was really the reason for giving up, then you may have underestimated Mixing Station.
In this great app, almost every detail of the appearance can be customized to your own wishes — until you are happy – with yourself.

[Anonymous]

In order not to let this topic deviate to the Pro’s and Con’s MS (that I own and love personally), I would also love to have an official A&H input, maybe they can advise if other solution exist on the subject.
Sumup:
-how to send/receive midi from/to Stage Traxx 3 (ipad), to the CQ12T, BT or wired without a PC in between.
-I know bomeBox can make it
-is there other solution available.

[KeithJ A&H]

@willmodelisme

The CQ is a MIDI enabled device that via USB requires a host and cannot host MIDI devices itself.
So if using USB you do need a computer, tablet, phone, Bomebox or other host that can send/receive messages or manage the connections between two (or more) devices e.g. the CQ and a MIDI Controller of some sort.
Using MIDI over the network, you can send messages directly to the CQ (port 51325), use the A&H MIDI Control app on a computer, or use the network connection of a Bomebox.

The reason the Bomebox is so commonly used with our mixers is that it can manage the network MIDI connect, act as a host for USB MIDI devices, be used wirelessly and be used to translate messages.
The translation is important if working with something that only uses CC messages and our mixers that use NRPN messaging (necessary because they have far more than 128 possible values to control).

The Bluetooth connection in the CQ is one way and audio only.

I have run up Stage Traxx 3 on an iPad connected to a CQ via USB. The app can see the CQ as a MIDI device, but it appears to only deal with CC messaging (and probably note on/off) so didn’t pick up a full NRPN message from the mixer when using the learn function.

Thanks,
Keith.

[Anonymous]

Tks for the reply.
What cable did you use to get the CQ and Ipad connected and talking to each other ?

[Anonymous]

I am so stupid…
Tried to connect with a simple USB-C to USB-B cable and…. it works !!!
Not only Stage traxx 3 can send the audio multiple channel from my ipad, but midi is also send.
With the help of the softswitch of the CQ12T, I am able to manage all wired (with I prefer for live gig).

That lead me to a feature request, add “virtual” softswitch on the CQ.
I’ll post on the feature request unless it is not possible technically.

[BobbyDazzler59]

Hi guys.
I have been quiet on this thread as I have been testing, experimenting and scripting various control items as in, MidiMix out to Bome translator pro (Trial) then out to CQ midi in, and various configurations there of including traffic both ways.
I have successfully scripted the Midimix sliders and mute buttons on one bank, and a first method of sliders on the three banks of 8 plus a master slider. I have yet to derive the button banking method.

I am struggling with an effective flow chart to process a Get command to the CQ, this will basically trigger an output from the CQ in form of a raw midi message from which you derive 2 variables, one of controller number (channel fader/mute), and the value.

This will then give current settings to integrate into external controls and running variables.
2 main aims here. Mute buttons etc are then easier to toggle from any state, such as my CQ startup will have mist channels muted from last gig shut down, so this needs picking up again on startup and sending to the Midimix button led indicators etc etc.

Secondly, I am trying to create script to effect pickup of CQ sliders when the Midimix matches that value to prevent massive vol changes when adjusting on the fly as it were.

A lot to do and hope to share eventually my findings and scripting for Bome translator etc.

Happy to share any scripting so far but its really only for testing functions and is not fully processing the entire system as a whole

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