dum ? Pre gain – SM58 – Not loud

[deepsParticipant]

Hi guys

Simple ?
What is your pre set to for lead singer

Reason for the ? is the lead singer wants his monitor so loud that it spills into FOH and feedback is always close by which i am getting
on stage their is a vented curtain behind him ( decor thing) which might be the cause of the feedback but because it has holes im not sure
he is in the center and far from other instruments
i have eq the monitor and also cupped the mic while eq

My current setup for him is
Shure SM58
JBL PRX 12 monitor
pre @ 36db
gate @ -40db
Comp @ pre set gentle
no effects in monitor
fader @ +5db
FOH @ +5db
Monitor for his channel and monitor main @ unity

In his monitor is his lead vocal and his guitar

Please let me know if you need more info

[airickessParticipant]

You can’t fix hearing loss. Would your lead singer be interested in going to in-ear monitors?

[AndreasModerator]

Maybe use a monitor with a more directional pattern (don’t know the JBL)?

[Dick ReesParticipant]

Check your Gearslutz thread. That guy Wyllys pretty much nailed it.

[deepsParticipant]

Thanks guys
I tries that but he said his ears get hot ?

I’m going to Hire two EAW microwedge cause I know that works well

The jbl I have so from a cost point of view the jbl makes sense
But from a sound point no ?

[AndreasModerator]

I’ve invested in a couple db technologies FM10 and really appreciate their narrow horizontal coverage of only 60 degrees. For my use they’re loud enough on stage (not for drums, not for heavy metal), very selective for the musicians and nearly no spill towards audience.

[[XAP]BobParticipant]

Water cooled IEMs – if he has the choice between IEM and no monitor?

Is there another way to reduce stage noise? (Do you even know what the level is on stage?)
Maybe a drum screen, or even just redirecting other monitors might bring the stage volume down enough that he can hear a more reasonable level in his own monitor?

[deepsParticipant]

He is far from the group at least 6 feet
During virtual sound check i found his monitor to be too loud
used Micro wedge last night and never have much feedback but again he wants it soo loud
Even his group complained

[[XAP]BobParticipant]

The he is asking for too much volume. There is something wrong in his mix, or in his understanding of foldback.

He might not know what is wrong, but foldback is primarily there to allow him to sing in tune and in time – he doesn’t need a FOH style mix.

Is he asking for ‘more of everything’ all the time?
He probably *needs* the kick (might be able to hear directly), maybe a dash of snare, he’ll need some melody instrument (keys/guitar) and some of the other vocalists, but mostly himself.

Anything else is “fluff” and should be cut if you are struggling with volume. You possibly want to arrange a time in a rehearsal or extended soundcheck to focus on his monitor – for the sake of his hearing!

[GCumbeeParticipant]

I realize this is serious but it borders on ridiculous. I have worked with major stars and wanna be’s. I have seen about everything you can imagine. It just baffles me when I see singers who say they can’t hear and want stupid levels. I harken back to my playing days in the 60’s when we never had monitors. I sang while playing drums. No monitor. Hard for me to be too sympathetic but I try. I know technology has come a long way since then. I agree that this guy needs to adapt somehow to IEMs. Those have cured a lot of these problems.

[[XAP]BobParticipant]

Also if his monitor is adversely affecting other musicians then that is a big problem on its own…

[deepsParticipant]

His group complains that his monitor is too loud
He complains its too soft
Its him thats the issue he does not gel well with the group
i gave up with him

[Dick ReesParticipant]

IME, you can’t hear if you don’t listen…

[Mr-BParticipant]

I knew there was a reason I did not do monitors, in honesty had the same issue with the singer in the band I have been doing for 30 odd years, always been a 58 and a pair of wedges that would be screaming and still not loud enough, to the point where I would not need his vocal in FOH. The answer for us was change the 58 for something else and get the vocalist to go with “in ears” gave him no choice really, in a polite way of course.
It has pretty much worked, he now has as much of himself as he wants, his wedges do not annoy everyone else and I get his microphone not microphone and 103dB of wedges, only thing left to do is get him a little closer to his mic so the gain of the headlamp can come down.
Ian B.

[GCumbeeParticipant]

This is not a new problem. I dealt with it in mid 80’s with a few major Country artists. We finally determined and felt there is a phisiological reason for this.

Have you ever taken a handheld mic or used a lavalier say in a church setting and did your own voice tests? Did you think it didn’t sound good or low? Then have someone else do the same thing and it sounds better or louder? We(some other engineers I work with)always have thought it has to do with phase cancellations. The singer hears themselves in their head followed by the sound from the wedge. This slight delay cancels to some degree to where they hear it lower. It’s the only explanation. This is why IEM seems to solve the problem in most cases.

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