dLive Firmware 1.70 – Online Now

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

Of course I’m not. Still, often enough I only have the surface for soundcheck and have to put it besides the stage for the show. Rooms fill up, some songs need slightly different settings, and I’m sitting/standing in the crowd with the iPad.
Also, it’s just insane in my opinion, that Qu users get more options in this regard than the users of their top line system.

[WolfgangParticipant]

OK, the following answer is a little longer…

If I don’t get a sensible FOH space, I make a headphone mix from the desk or work there with additional monitors.
I tell my client beforehand that under these limited conditions I cannot give a 100% guarantee for the front sound. This has always been understood – either I will get a better place or the restrictions will be accepted. Everyone will be satisfied.

I will not do a live mix with iPAD.
There are four important reasons for this for me:

a) Wifi is not a reliable connection
If I am in the audience and the connection breaks off, then I have at this moment no possibility at all to react to a possibly arising feedback! This actually happened to me at an election campaign with a single lectern microphone. I won’t repeat that shock!

b) Poor response times
In extreme cases I have to wipe the pad with my fingers to get to a certain channel. Then I have to wait a moment until the screen is ready for my input and implements it.
I’m definitely faster with one surface.

c) Distraction
When you mix with a touch screen, you very often have to look at the display to make the right movements. There is no haptic feedback that you are pushing or regulating. The gaze is therefore very often not on the stage where it usually belongs, but often on the board. This automatically means that contact with your artists is significantly minimized. That does not seem to me to be the right thing to do!

d) The artists must look for me
When I’m on the road with the board in the audience, the musicians always have to locate where I am to be able to display their monitor requests. When I am in a fixed place and look attentively at the stage, it is much easier!

An acquaintance once put it beautifully:
Wanting to do everything on a touch screen is like running a workshop with a Swiss Army knife.
Somehow everything is already there, better than nothing and often worth its weight in the open air. But real tools are something completely different.

This is exactly what happens with these devices.
In the setup phase they are valuable helpers, because you can finally do detailed work in different places, for which you needed a lot of time in the past. Especially for the work in the monitor area these parts are a significant improvement of our work situation!

But we shouldn’t shoot ourselves in the leg out of convenience.
If we want sensible working positions, then we have to fight for them sometimes!
If something goes wrong, if in extreme cases someone loses his hearing through feedback, then it will surely also be painful for the operator, at the latest in court…
I hope my contribution was understandable.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

You explain why a FOH location is better and I agree. That doesn’t change the fact that sometimes there is no way around doing the cosmetics during show with an iPad. I’m nit talking about sitting in the crowd the whole show with the tablet in the hands. I’m talking about grabbing the tablet on the side stage mixing position and going in front of the stage, listen, make some changes and go back. Even if the WiFi connection gets lost, I still can go back. And not every show needs constant “feedback supervision”. IEM and whatnot.

Anyways, that still only explains why you don’t NEED editing FX on the tablet. But would it hurt you if the app had this functionality? You might even use the app as an additional screen while being on FOH mixing location, so every bit of additional functionality helps the app in my opinion.

[WolfgangParticipant]

Soon I will have a show where my FOH has to stand at the side of the hall wall. A gala dinner, of course, I can’t go between the tables with my desk.
Maybe I’ll actually go through the tables while people eat their dessert.
But to be honest, I wouldn’t dream of standing in between with an iPad. No, I go there and hear if e.g. in the middle of the hall the bass is too loud and if one still understands the songs well. Everything else I do from the FOH desk.

But now we are really far away from the topic… 😉

[ZistanParticipant]

More flexible routing is very good. But why not make routing group into a group, as it is organized by Digico and SSL?

[ddff_lvParticipant]

I do quite a lot shows with iPad only and for one pre-rehearsed band setup it works just great. And if MIDI automation is used, then it leaves pretty nothing to do, just minor PA EQ and we’re ready to go. Even losing a connection for a minute or even a whole song (never had it happening) would not be a huge problem.
I’m not telling I don’t like mixing on real console with faders and buttons- of course I do, but there are situations where iPad does the job.

[WolfgangParticipant]

if the band is so perfectly coordinated that they already control their dynamics on stage and none of the musicians gets too loud — then you don’t need an iPad to mix. 😉

i experienced such a thing about 20 years ago with a french band (“Salome”), i will probably never forget that!
but unfortunately not since then. many bands need small (or bigger corrections) of the different instruments in the songs, because the arrangement is not 100% perfect and the musicians on stage can’t estimate how loud they are on the front. therefore i am always at the console and make small corrections, even during the songs i adjust the levels. if, for example, a guitar solo comes, then i try to make this solo either place by making other instruments a bit quieter, or i increase the overall intensity of the solo by making the keyboard louder as well. that depends completely on the song. i succeed far better with faders than on an iPad, besides, i also have time to look at the stage to guess any monitor wishes. the iPad occupies me too much.
in addition there are adjustments of the effects depending on the song, because not always the same effects fit.

[Mfk0815Participant]

Hmm, for me it is somehow funny when people try to tell other what is the absolute only best way to do a job. If somebody want only work with a surface, fine, do it with the surface. If another like to use the tablet instead, also fine grab your tablet and do your job. At last it is not the tool but the human who will create a great ora worse sound, regardless which tool is used. (Ok, most of the time the result is somewhere in between great and worse)
For me personally the tablet becomes more and more a part of my workflow, especially equing the PA and the monitors as well as setup the individual mixesfor the monitor wedges the tablet is valueable (I do this since the remote app for the LS9 was released). Unfortunatly the remote app of the dLive, and the GLD, is not well done. The functionality and handling is far away from being a pro tool. So, at the moment I more and more avoid to work with it because it is not that useful as the apps of other vendors, although I am missing the tablet when preparing or doing a concert.
Imho they should redesign the app so that is is kore like the one of the SQ.
Then maybe also Wolfgang will use the tablet;-)…sometimes;-)

[WolfgangParticipant]

Unfortunately, I’m starting to fight back because more and more people are telling me: “It works just as well with the tablet”.
That’s not true for me, I’m much faster, more reliable and more attentive to the needs on stage with the console.

but of course, anyone can do the last end as they please.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

Nobody is debating that working on a surface is easier and faster than working with an iPad app. But it doesn’t change the fact that many people NEED the app for their workflow now. It is an ADDITIONAL tool, it won’t replace a surface, even IF it had all functionality of a surface (which I’d say would be ideal). Yes, some people claim again and again the app has no full functionality because A&H fear they could sell less surfaces. That’s BS, because… well, Director. And yes, it’s not professional to only rely on a WiFi connection, but nobody is talking about that either. It’s about augmenting the surface, not about replacing it.

[ThatComplicatedMidiGuyParticipant]

My two cents:

I regularly use an iPad for console interaction. Occasionally to mix an entire show, but mostly for utility, such as checking peripheral mixes, wedges, or things like ringing out lavs. Tablet interaction is an indispensable portion of my workflow.

However, I do so understanding the risks associated, and for that reason, am *always* involved in network design/management for any console I need to operate in this way. In my own rig I’ve found airport extremes to be extraordinarily reliable as an off-the-shelf backup to a higher end model of AP. …and I say that having used them in every kind of wireless environment imagineable. The point is, you can absolutely rely on that workflow. Just buy good network tools and have a backup plan in place.

Secondary to that thought: I’ve successfully used TCP midi to implement custom OSC interfaces for running the entire house reliably show after show. I’ve even made dummy-resistant Osc templates that limit things like fader range so unskilled folk can’t cause feedback loops while supporting events that are below my pay grade. Scene recalls, house lighting, media playback, you name it… It all behaves reliably all on an iPad. (Touch Osc and a Mac hardwired to the network running Osculator.

WIf you *really* wanted to, you could vnc into a machine running director for full show control on iPad. …it would be a pain in the butt, and totally not worth it, but you could in a pinch. For that reason we’re actually getting a surface pro 3 as a secondary FOH device at our second campus. Now that director respects crossfade on scene recall, that seems like a no-brainer to me.

Still, I do use an iPad for many many things and find windows to be a clunky pain. For those reasons I would still echo a desire for better functionality in an iOS interface. Or even Android would be nice…

[WolfgangParticipant]

as I mentioned before, I’ve been using an iPad since this control solution for iLive came out. that’s been many years now and I really don’t want to miss it anymore!

unfortunately the fact is that there are already some organizers who expect you to mix a concert with the iPad!
Unfortunately, I have already experienced this myself.

I just wanted to mention that…

[Mfk0815Participant]

I personally like to have both, a hardware surface and a tablet, with me on a job.
I also did some jobs only with a tablet in the last years. But the circumstances have to fit. I won‘t do it for musical jobs with twenty headsets and a band, also not for bands with significant more than 8 input channels or if there is a complex work to do. And I need a remote app which allows me to control the whole processing of the console. Setup and similar stuff must not be controllable by the tablet, but all relevant parameters for the acoustic result must be controlable. It is a no go when you cannot tweak the compressor completly or the reverb for the vocals.
Unfortunatly none of the apps of A&H fulfill the last requirement and that disqualifies them from doing a tablet-only job. Ok, it would be possible to to some stuff via PC for the dLive or GLD but not for the SQ since there is no PC application available.
At theend of the day, and that brings me back to this thread, it is fine to integrate rf control and more complex routing possibilities. But for a lot of people the more important update would be an update to a almost full featured tablet based remote control.

[ThatComplicatedMidiGuyParticipant]

…just a note to follow up on my earlier comment…

I was wrong!

A&H *fixed* the midi bang issue VIA “custom midi,” in individual scenes. IE, I have a FOH desk link cues w/ a broadcast desk by adding them as embedded recall. Broadcast desk does *NOT* issue program change when that embedded recall is triggered. However, it *does* still issue any midi command entered as “custom midi,” for that scene!

Just tested a bunch of stuff with this: FOH/Broadcast consoles are now fully linked, including outboard (Live Professor,) @ both locations as well as DAW commands.

THANK YOU ALLEN & HEATH!!!!

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