Dlive and Dante

[StevePParticipant]

I am working with a Drive s5000 and a DM48 that we are using Dante with to route channels in to a DAW, Reaper specifically. We noticed that when sending channels over Dante that it was the IPs, not sockets, or that is how we ended up. We were successful in getting the channels (IPs in this case) to the DAW. Of course the gain affected the IPs on the S5000 and over Dante, but I was surprised that the IP channel processing did not affect the Dante send. This is what is desired obviously but I would like to know more about what is actually happening here.

First question: are the IPs set to a default to were they can be split off through Dante without something like direct outs or tielines? And are there better routing scenarios that can be used than what we stumbled upon?

Secondly: It is my understanding (correct me I am wrong) that tie lines are used to patch sockets for say, digital splits, and not IPs. So if I wanted to route signals from sockets and and not IPs over Dante, how is that done?

Lastly: I am guessing that each input socket electronically has it’s own preamp using “gain” to set the signal for the best level going into the ADC, I am also guessing that the gain would not be accessed to be adjusted unless an IP is assigned to it. If all of this is true, how would gain be adjusted for a socket to run only over Dante to say, a computer using a DAW?

Thanks for any help.

[BradParticipant]

Hi Steve,

the IP Take off point can be assigned from various points in the signal chain (post EQ, post comp etc) in the Routing page using the “Global IP Direct Out Source” selector. you an also use the tie lines to send a direct post preamp signal out. In our setup we run IP outs post PEQ to a ME system, and use the tie lines to record to a dante card. as another option you can also assign via the record send of a virtual sound check in the I/O page. i believe this is also a post preamp only send (happy to be corrected though).

hope that helps

[ThatComplicatedMidiGuyParticipant]

I typically like to record with the tie Lines; mostly because it keeps gain-staging/processing in check on what you’re burning to disk. (IE Preamp—Dante, as opposed to Preamp—someGarbageIthoughtSoundedGood–Dante) …which is super helpful if you’re using that content for virtual sound check, and/or don’t want to accidentally record some stupid thing you did with a compressor or something. If you want processing burned to disk, then yes: grab a direct output instead and change the pickoff point to the desired location.

The one other thing I’ve noticed when recording tie lines: Phase is *also* captured. IE if I have mid-side mics and have one side inverted, or a snare bottom that’s inverted, it will be recorded as inverted. Just be aware of that when doing any playback, you’ll have to un-invert your inversions.

[Mfk0815Participant]

I am using sometimes also two DX168X. That may cause that I do not use a 1:1 assignment of input sockets to input channels. So I do the recording via IP direct out, also pre channel processing. That’s for me the most suitable way to get the right inputon the right track.

[StevePParticipant]

We will be using the DAW not so much for recording but for live streaming. It is a more cost-effective way to go for us at this time compared to getting another console. As such, we want all volume, processing, effects, etc…. for that stream to be totally controlled by the DAW since all of that will be a totally different setup and sound, including routing. The tie lines would be the best way to go for us.

I know I am be getting into simple mechanics here, but if we wanted to route sockets, not IPs, through Dante using tie lines, how is that done? I ask because we were only able to patch IPs through the Dante manager.

Thanks again. Steve

[ThatComplicatedMidiGuyParticipant]

@ Steve… having done that very thing for a few years (several years ago,) I can safely tell you using DAW to run live stream is a bad, bad idea. The biggest downfall is that there are no snapshots in a DAW, so if your op does something foolish accidentally with the mix, you’re basically hosed. Nofoolin, I’ve got the scars to prove it lol. The *one* exception that I’m aware of, is Live Professor. (Or, alternatively qLab, but that’s a pricey way to go.) You could theoretically run “miksebord” process/mix everything through LP, (or just mix in LP and use post-processing pickoff for the DAW send,) and then use cue lists in LP to manage. The big advantage of that is that you can then also use dLive snapshots as a cue trigger for Live Professor via TCP midi.

…but honestly, you’re better off allocating a couple busses and doing a sub-mix on the dLive, or allocating duplicate channels for a remote op and giving them an ipad or something. (Maybe even an iPad running custom control + a BCF5000 for physical faders and a bome box or something to translate; I’m assuming cost is a factor.) I have a broadcast desk set up and a broadcast sub-mix on my FOH desk for when an op isn’t available. Basically the board mix is the in-house TV mix, but I have an extra matrix on the output side to have a brickwall limiting compressor and some additional tonal shaping before it hits the internet. IE: FOH Channels—Post-fade send—TV Mix (StAux)—TV Master (StMtx)—Out.

Good luck with the stream sir!

[BradParticipant]

Hi Steve,

sockets can be linked via tie lines on the I/O page. just select the surface or mix rack input sockets on the left side, then the location of the Dante card on the output side. as far as dante controler is concerned it only “sees” dante channels, not the original source.

i would second TCMG though. just do the mix using the dlive bus. if you don’t want to run an iPad, just use the computer you are connected to via dante to run dlive director. this gives you full control over the bus mix

[StevePParticipant]

Very good points you guys. Yes, we do not want to be at the mercy of a PC operating system. I like the idea of allocating duplicate channels, just do a one-on-one matchup with 1 to 65, 2 to 66, and so on up to 128. Then create our own routing, groups, FX and so forth for the upper 64. It is like a whole other mixer within the console. So powerful. Thank you all for your expertise. I am ready to dive back in.

Steve

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