Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

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This topic contains 90 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of saadatrent saadatrent 2 days, 4 hours ago.

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  • #80270
    Profile photo of Smokehead
    Smokehead
    Participant

    @joeschmo:

    I don’t support your decision to sell the device to someone who doesn’t know about it. You should have told him or her about that issue. It’s just mean and very poor behaviour.

    But yes, i’ve thought about selling too. But i just don’t want to give up the device as well as i’m not willing to accept the loss in worth because the device is a few months old and not working properly. I bought it for about 1700€ and i would just get something about 900-1000€ . That’s not what i’m willing to accept. Not yet.

    I still really hope Allen & Heath will resolve this issue in a few weeks/months.

    People have to work with equipment which fullfills the specifications it has been advertised with.

    Best regards,

    Smokehead

    #80271
    Profile photo of Frank
    Frank
    Participant

    Does anybody know, if this problem occurs also with the SQ-Mixers? Somebody told me, that with V1.2 he had no problems anymore with a SQ-Mixer.

    #80275
    Profile photo of Tizian
    Tizian
    Participant

    Dear Qu Users

    This a report about the Qu series issues.

    I’m a musician from Germany (Bavaria) working since 40 years as a professional keyboarder on stage.

    In January 2015 I buy my QU 16.

    History:

    Until 2017 I use a Multiface II with cables to my QU 16, then I use usb streaming.
    In March 2017 I started with streaming multi audio file playbacks from my software via ASIO usb from pc to QU — Sound excellent – using also midi to control QU with my Software.

    Working in difference occupation – example what happens:

    A Gig: Streaming live on stage – people dancing – partytime – suddenly – music stops – crazy and terrible.

    What happens – I realised the problem step by step over two years and I will explain you, because this is the reason for QU issues and a problem of AH because they can’t fix the problem.

    QU Mixer, Workstaion (PC), Lights (LEDS) and some other components are normal affiliated on the same circuit working on stage in a Hotel, Restaurant or similary locations.

    On stage, when playing gigs open air and so on – there are separate circuits – no problem when streaming, while QU and PC on separate circuit only and no other power consumer connected.

    So first I realised that the driver crashed, when all components on the same circuit and someone for example turn on a beamer, plug in and starts a simple fan or turn on a neonlight on stage switched at the same circuit the whole system is connected.

    THINKING — WHAT HAPPENS — RESULT

    The usb Controller on board the QU mixer can’t stabilize minimal voltage speaks – result: the driver crash – a littel window appears – now asio driver found – music stops …..

    I send several Mails within all informations to German support, I test several mainboards with several PC Systems Windows 7 64bit prof, Windows 10 64bit prof build 1803 and so on in in the last 10 months – watch the video…

    Send a Mail to A & H – Answer was: sorry but we can’t realised your problem…..

    I’m living in a little town 30 km from Thomann, buy there since 40 years. In August 2018 (because A & H do not answer when I sending all results of the issues) I visit three times the PA Stuff in Treppendorf with my QU – PCS – and a foog Machine – switched all components on the same circuit – open the QU driver panel and starts foging – driver crash – (watch the video). I taste several QU Mixers at Thomann, with severel PCS and the result: driver crash or distortion sound when straming playbacks from the PC to the QU.

    SUPPORT A & H — Abstract from the last support Mail 07.11.2018:

    Leider kann Dir Christian und auch Allen&Heath bei Deinem Problem mit dem Treiber des QU16 nicht weiter helfen.
    Der Verdacht liegt nahe, dass es sich um ein Hardware Problem handelt und wir das nicht so schnell gefixt bekommen.

    CONCLUSION

    The issue with the QU series and usb audio streaming is 100% the result of the usb controller on the QU mainboard and maybe some electronic components built in on the mainboard inside the QU mixer. The usb controller built in mainboard of QU mixer series can’t stabilize minimal voltage speaks and seperate the driver between pc and the QU. It is not a problem of intel chipset or windows OS. A & H company knows it…. They want to sweep it under the carpet!

    So it is very expensive for A & H to change all boards of the QU Mixers and logical they are blocked the support.

    Please A & H be honestly to the user and tell them that you can’t fix the issue problem with firmware and software updates, further stop the failed information that problem is outside of your company. Explane the user it is 100 % your own error.

    And please tell your employees – answer when users ask questions a little bit earlier.

    Truth is better than lying…..

    Best regards from Tizian (Klaus) (ask Christian Hähnlein – German Support – he is involved and up to date with the issue of the QU series and he knows my person – also Holger one of the best master of the PA stuff by Thomann)

    Furthermore thanks to the Thomann PA stuff – they spend a lot of hours, when I represent the issues, because they take my problem seriously.
    A & H support mail answer me, text: – sorry, but we can’t realise your problem …
    ha ha ha and lol ….
    I invite A & H via mail to Thomann – they answer: no interst – i know why – they 100 % familiar with the problem.

    All QU users can reproduce the issue:

    Switch the QU – the pc – a fog machine – in a power strip stucked in the same circuit — — connect the usb ports pc and qu — open the QU Asio Panel — start fogging two times per second (push the buttom) … watch my video – driver crash or in windows 7 sometimes distortion sound appears or driver crash when playback via usb from the pc.

    At least this is the reason why A & H is cautios when user ask – please fix the problem!!! – result: it’s to expensive for A & H to fix it (they must change the motherboard complet in the QU mixer).

    When streaming playbacks live on stage the QU is a No Go – it’s better to use the Mixer in a living room for childrens karaoke partys – excuse me … (I love my Baby QU, but it’s sick and A & H give them not the right medicine).

    Friends are using a behringer X32 – no problems with windows pc – streaming – fogging – no issues…. test it over three days…

    Sorry about my englisch its terrible, but I hope you now can place the issue – make a video – burn it on a CD – send it with the Mixer to A & H and claim damages against the company…..

    Greatings from Germany … Tizian

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    #80279
    Profile photo of Alex A&H
    Alex A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Tizian,

    I’m the product support engineer for the Qu series and I have been working with Christian on this case. I’m sorry to hear the issue is not yet resolved and I want to reassure you that we are still looking into this case for you.

    Unfortunately, as we are not able to reproduce this behaviour at A&H, it has not been possible for us to determine the cause, so I cannot say for sure whether your issue is caused by hardware or software with your Qu, or an external event – we just don’t know that yet. What we do know is that there are thousands of units out in the field, and yours is the first case of this kind we have come across.

    I must note that the driver crashing and USB-B streaming noise are two separate issues, and we have addressed the streaming issue in the latest firmware (V1.95), however, some optimisation of the PC is still needed, as issues can be caused by power management settings on the PC or conflicting hardware/drivers, which is not something we can control in the Qu firmware or drivers.

    We are not trying to sweep anything under the carpet, we have been very open and honest, taken the problem seriously, and the development team have worked tirelessly to find the best solution for all users.

    There are some other misunderstandings to address too:
    – The USB 3.0 ‘Intel’ issue affects Mac and PC, as Apple have been producing Intel based computers for a number of years.
    – USB implementation can indeed be seen as a standard, and they’ve even made their implementation open to other manufacturers, which is one of the reasons this has become such a problem as (by their own admission) their USB 3.0 host controller isn’t fully backwards compatible with the USB 2.0 standard.
    – Qu and SQ both use USB 2.0 (as labelled on the socket itself), this is to do with hardware, not something that is changed through firmware.

    We are providing as much support and information as possible to help users find the source of their problem, and will continue to work individually with all customers who have experienced any issue, as every system is different.

    In your case, I will continue to work with Christian on this, but if you would like to contact support directly, you can do so at support.allen-heath.com or email support@allen-heath.com and we will do our best to help.

    Thanks!

    Alex

    #80281
    Profile photo of Frank
    Frank
    Participant

    But the simple qustion is: Why don’t have other companies this problem with USB?
    I startetd a question in a german forum about this. There are NO PROBLEMS with USB 2 or 3 laptops for example with the Midas M32 or the Behringer X32 and I dindn’t hear until now anything else from other companies.

    I must agree Tizian, that it would be fair to inform customers and sellers, that the QU series strongly recommends USB 2 ports. That this is written at the backside means nothing, beacause normaly everybody starts from downcompatibility of USB 3, but thats not reliable, as you told us. Because in the near future nobody will still have USB 2 port PC’s. Thus these QU-mixers are only for people, who don’t need USB-Recording and playback. I had to buy a used Lenovo Thinkpad TP 410 at eBay to get a working solution. My 1100.-€ brandnew highend audio-optimated-laptop does’nt work!

    Quite in truth: Do You know similar problems with SQ models? Because, if A&H has working mixers for this option, they must communicate it clearly, so that the buying customer knows, what he get’s. I would change my Qu 16 to a SQ 5, if I could be sure, that this will not have the USB-problem, otherwise I would change to a Midas 32R!

    #80287
    Profile photo of Joeschmo
    Joeschmo
    Participant

    This is hog wash and a joke Allen and Heath are flat out not interested in fixing their products.
    USB 3.0 has been widely available since about 2010
    USB 3.1 has been widely available since about 2013
    USB 3.2 became available since 2017

    Allen and Heath is still selling product that can only communicate or stream data in USB 2.0. LOL HA HA HA HA!!! Jokes on us.

    Allen and Heath advertise their antiquated products to musicians, Churches, Studios, sound engineers/sound reinforcement etc. They convince us they are the best and most up to date products available. Then when they don’t perform to even minimum industry standards, they blame their misimplimentation on the standards every other manufacturer is using. You people really buying A&H BS. They are incompetent or grossly negligent and could care less about us. This has been a year in the coming. No communication on the forum until it starts getting nasty.

    I don’t know of any business, that would purchase a product, that have multiple design issues, wait months for a firmware update, that fixes nothing for anyone, and continue to wait in patience for the products to become further obsolete.
    Either you guys are not smart business operators or just plain stupid. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. But truth hurts.
    Its getting hard to find obsolete computers to run Allen and Heath obsolete mixers. But yet then still sell the obsolete junk as current. Only advertising is current.

    I may not be your typical musician and business person. I can buy and sell equipment as needed for my business. Profit and customer service is most important. The most important thing is not loyalty to a manufacturer, it’s operating your business at a profit and servicing your customer in a timely cost effective, professional manner. Would you treat your customers like Allen and Heath treat us, I would hope not or you wont be in business long.

    Like I said earlier, mines already sold. My customers are too important to me to put up with the lame excuses from Allen and Heath. I also have deep enough pockets that I am looking into actions that would force A&H to be held responsible for false and/or deceptive advertising, Failure to deliver products as advertised and what ever else we can find, based on different countries laws and legal standards. I was told this will probably take a while. Just exploring the options right now. I encourage others to do the same. Hold manufactures accountable.

    For now the smart thing to do or your business, is cut your losses and move on.

    Don’t get mad, get even.

    #80289
    Profile photo of Frank
    Frank
    Participant

    Hi Joeschmo,
    which mixer did you buy instead? Would be interesting to know working solutions. I know as a working solution for example the Midas M32/M32R and the Behringer X32 (as lower budget version). What did you buy?

    #80290
    Profile photo of Joeschmo
    Joeschmo
    Participant

    Midas is on it’s way

    #80291
    Profile photo of Joeschmo
    Joeschmo
    Participant

    Update, although I had my QU equipment sold, as suggested by @smokehead and others, I decided to call the person I was selling the QU equipment to, to inform them of the A&H issues. Upon a lengthy conversation about A&H and other mixer brands, it was decided they would back out of the purchase. Would have liked to dump this crap but decided to not do what A&H does. Thanks @smokehead, for your input. Would have liked to get rid of it but have always been a stand up person, I just couldn’t, even though they had no intention using the data stream for recording or playback. But they backed out anyway. I’m not upset, and hears why.

    1) better to be stand up professional than sleaze-bags like (insert name here)
    2) I will use it as a venue backup board and as a reminder to bash A&H where ever possible. I can afford it so no big deal. It will be part of my asset list including 4 other boards. Just kinda is useless having several digital snakes and AR2412 rack boxes. Just add it to the other non-used junk we all acquire over the years. Maybe useful as a backup, who knows. I don’t even want to look at it.

    4) upon further professional advice this afternoon, if and when it comes to a head, I need to possess the equipment and all the info we have acquired from the Chipset Maker and OS vender and forums. We’ll need to prove and show harm and the intent to deceive or defraud. You all know where I’m going with this. Hopefully for all you guys, A&H will get their act together, I’m sure for many of you this was an expensive purchase and unlike myself, cannot afford to just write it off as bad judgement.

    Everyone should copy this thread, and start liking it too as many music, house of worship and recording forums as possible, to warn others. Call your music stores and remind them of the problems with A&H and how it effects further purchases in the future.

    You all need to do this ASAP possible. A&H will just discontinue these products in the name of aging technology and never fix it and you all will be sitting with this limited value crap and still have to repurchase something to move forward.

    Good Luck, I’m done talking about this.

    The End — not even close.

    #80295
    Profile photo of Tizian
    Tizian
    Participant

    Hi, Alex

    Thank for your interesting news about the issues of the QU series and that your high qualified hard- and software specialist working so hard to solve my problems.

    Answer the following Questions:

    You solved the problem between my Motu Android Smartphone and the Qu-You App – I send the Pictures to Christian?

    You get the list of my Hardware build in my pcs, I send on 03.Oktober to Christian?

    High qualified Hard- and Software engineers of your Company tested Audiostreaming on their own Windos PCs without issues?

    Please send me a list of your hardware (what kind of Mainboard, RAM, Hard Disk, Windows Version and so on) build in your PCs you tested. I think it’s no Problem for your Specialists?

    Is it possible to sent a short Video (you desired from me too and I send a lot) while you are fogging when streamin Audio on your highend windows pc, which doesnt crash?

    I am very, very happy that you don’t have issues when fogging, so my Problem is solved.
    When I get the List I talk to my PC Spezialist and we build the hardware in to my Computers, very nice.
    Thank you in advance. I am in your fault, why we are thinking not earlier to solve the problem this way?

    As thank you I send my new video with your Beta Driver 4.47. I testet on PC with a Asrock E350M1 and the QU Firmware 1.95. The board has just USB 2.0 Ports, works fine until the fog machine starts – watch the Video.

    But I am happy now – I am waiting for your Hardware List and the video.

    Thank you very much & Best Regards, Tizian (Klaus)

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    #80383
    Profile photo of airickess
    airickess
    Participant

    FYI, last month I purchased a SanDisk Extreme Portable SSD 250GB drive with a USB C to USB adapter. Using my Qu16 I did a 45 minute multitrack test recording on this drive and it recorded and played back flawlessly. I made sure to listen to the entire recording and it never had a problem.

    #80448
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    I thought the solution to this problem (for me) was port related, as it’s been working fine for a few weeks and I’ve left it well alone. I’ve just had to remove the SQ from that port and the problem came back on other ports, so I went back to the ‘working port’ and the problem was happening there too. A reboot fixed it on the ‘working port’, so that throws my theory out of water, but maybe it’s some insight to the devs because it could be anything!

    #80644
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    Okay, I’ve been doing some experimenting because it’s on and off for me.

    I have noticed if I have Maschine running on its own and record audio I get the noise. If I run Ableton in the background as well as maschine (with no project loaded) it still happens. If I load a project in Ableton it goes away. Which made me think Ableton must be giving the CPU the nudge to increase its clock from idle, so I tried Maschine on its own (low CPU usage project I should add) but set the CPU to run at max clock and the problem pretty much went away, with maybe the odd click.

    Surely it can’t be this simple.. I’m pretty sure I’ve tried setting max CPU clock before to no avail. so I’m thinking it might be a recent overclock. Going to test it at stock clock speeds.

    #80647
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    Can’t seem to edit my older post. I’ve tried at stock CPU frequency and it’s the same thing. Problem’s there when set to 0-100% CPU profile but goes away when set to 100%. The CPU seems to need under some load for it to go away for me

    #80729
    Profile photo of whatsoup
    whatsoup
    Participant

    Forget everything I said. I thought I was on to something but it’s happening all the time now 🙁

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