Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

Forums Forums Qu Forums Qu troubleshooting Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

This topic contains 249 replies, has 56 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of volounteer volounteer 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 241 through 250 (of 250 total)
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  • #93729
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    So I thought, you know about problems with Dante standard? Perhaps I did it understand wrong…

    Greetings from germany…

    since this topic is related to USB-B I was referring to these problems
    but there are DANTE problems as well out there…
    different topic, different place to discuss these

    Greetings from Frankonia….

    #93731
    Profile photo of Frank
    Frank
    Participant

    Somebody asked “And perhaps they will find other ways to send data to other devices rather than with usb.” So that was my answer… for example with Dante-card. It is bad enough, that also me bought a mixer AH QU 16 for 1800.-€ and especially a laptop Lenovo Ideapad 16 GB RAM + SSD and Intel i7 processor for 1100.-€ to have a perfect combination for multitrack recording and playback with Cubase DAW and then I found out, that this amount brought this USB-streaming problems, which all people here know. After this I bought the used Lenovo Thinpad TP 410 from 2012 and this works! Crazy! But we will not be able to change it… This problem exists and it seems not to be solvable with software-update from side of A&H. Intel will not move a millimeter, because they are not interested in the littel amount of musicians. If we need a working solution with mordern pc’s we have to use for example Dante for SQ5 or another mixer like Midas MR32R with USB. We will not get a solution for QU-series. The A&H SQ and QU mixer are very good in sound, surface, quality, but they have the problem, that they need USB 2 for working multitrack-handling. So… who needs mutlitrack-recording/-playback directly to the DAW, he will have a big chance of problems. If somebody is glad with multitrackrecording und playback with a working USB-stick or harddisk (not every device works, also there you have to know or test, which one is working… the list of working devices is in the internet), he gets a very good mixer. Everybody must know this and decide! Problem is, that the distributors perhaps don’t tell it to the customers (like I has to learn). so you have to hope, that a lot of interested customers read this thread, so that they are able to decide correct, which mixer they want to buy and for what purpose…

    @SteffenR -> Fankonia… so you are not a long distance away from me… Ingolstadt 🙂

    #93737
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    wich was your distributor? Audio Technica?
    or… thomann?

    #93745
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    I found this text inside of the manual of an RME Firewire/USB3 interface…

    USB audio is in several ways different from PCI based audio interfaces. Thanks to the high
    speed of USB 3, typical problems of streamed (isochronous) data transmission can be circumvented.
    RME’s proprietary USB 3 technology makes it possible to achieve performance similar
    to PCI Express, IF all participating components work perfectly. At this time USB 3 has got a bad
    reputation because many layouts, cables and connectors are designed badly and lower the
    maximum throughput. Typical problems are not or randomly detected devices, devices that fail
    as soon as data is transmitted, transmission errors and following (as required by the USB 3
    standard) the reset of the host controller, guaranteeing a drop out for several seconds.
    It is therefore not possible to guarantee reliable and highest performance of USB 3 operation
    with any computer and cable just because they claim to support USB 3. The real performance
    has to be evaluated on a per USB 3 port (!) and per cable base.
    #93750
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @SteffenR

    How the PC designs the hardware and SOFTWARE make a big difference.
    The software is the real culprit.

    If the maker CONFORMED NOT FOLLOWED the usb specs the port would not be an issue.
    That would include using chips that conform not merely follow the usb specs.
    That said, the usb site notes they have little interest in audio use.

    Cables that meet usb3 standards should not be a problem.
    Are there counterfeit cables being sold cheap?
    Then that is not a usb problem but a fraudster selling fake goods.
    Connectors are the same as cable. Cut corners and create crap, but dont put a conforming logo on that product to prove it is real.

    Read about USB standards and use of the usb logo here
    https://www.usb.org/about

    #93751
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @SteffenR

    If the compliance committee
    https://www.usb.org/about-usb-if/compliance-committee
    is lax on compliance testing then we could blame the USB consortium.

    Intel and TI are on the board.
    Could there be corruption that allowed bad chips because of that membership on the BOD?

    If so I would expect the audio manufacturers to be screaming and yelling pointing out that they are not the problem and it is usb.org

    #93755
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    I tried to deliver some facts and expieriences
    and you argueing again like a defiant child

    #93757
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @SteffenR

    nonsense
    I am not arguing at all

    I gave facts about how usb and the consortium work and also where the problem mostly lies
    vut the truth seems to bother you for some reason.

    #93759
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @volounteer ,

    Yes, we conform to the USB 2.0 specification.
    We also use the isochronous transfer method as mentioned in Steffen’s post.

    There can be lots of reasons for noise/distortion on the USB signal, most of which we have eliminated through improvements to firmware and many others which can be solved by tweaking the computer setup to ensure it is suitable for real time audio. (as in this article – http://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/1002).
    We are almost always able to help users in getting their system set up for use with Qu/SQ for recording and playback of perfect audio.

    However, the lack of full backwards compatibility in the Intel extensible host controller interface when running USB 2.0 devices on a USB 3.* connection has been documented for years.
    (e.g. https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/specification-updates/8-series-chipset-pch-spec-update.pdf)
    Intel also made their controller specifications open for use without licensing fees, meaning it is used with other chipsets too…

    So as you have pointed out before, we have ‘baked in’ a hardware chip, but this does indeed conform to the USB 2.0 standard and will work perfectly with a computer/connection that also conforms to this standard.

    The reason we are not constantly pointing fingers or trying to shun all responsibility is because that doesn’t help a user who is experiencing the issue.

    Because there is no single answer then, and so many different setups are possible, it is always best to contact us using support.allen-heath.com if you experience this or any other issue and we will do everything we can to help.

    Thanks,
    Keith.

    #93762
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @KeithJ A&H

    Thanks for telling us. Why keep that a secret here for so long?

    I will still look at the usual suspects , but it is also looking like the usb.org honchos do not really care about audio use.
    And, with intel and TI on their board, may have been willing to cut corners on their testing.

    That said, I do know that many problems are caused on the PC side.
    I had a very long multipage document on how to fix various versions of windoze to make audio work right.
    Until those are done I would still look at the pc side as the cause before AH or intel chips.

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