Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

Forums Forums Qu Forums Qu troubleshooting Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

This topic contains 221 replies, has 52 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Maurewan Maurewan 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 181 through 195 (of 222 total)
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  • #90924
    Profile photo of Frank
    Frank
    Participant

    @volounteer
    In the operation manual and on the backside of the mixer they say “use USB2”. And that means for USB-B-mode connection to a PC. The USB-devices for the USB-Drive mode are another problem. Some USB-drives work, others not… I work with Sandisk Extreme 32 Gb without problems and also with an LaCie hardisk… The database with possible USB-drives was helpful to find a working one…
    I told above, that A&H will not be able to solve the problem with USB-B mode, because their hardware is fix, not possible to change afterwards, so we have to live with the used hardware. That USB 3 now is the standard, while the mixer development based on USB 2, is a problem, which cannot be solved by A&H, I think, specifically for the older mixer-series…

    #90930
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @frank

    Indeed.
    Should not need any database of drives that might work.
    They should just work. Period. Like they all do in my PC.

    Some usb flash drives work. others do not work. mostly seems random.
    I found an old usb 2 flash drive that worked.
    So far I have not found a usb3 drive that works.
    Some folks say their USB3s do work. So it seems like some do and some do not.
    My question is WHY?
    Knowing that could help make it easier for folks to find memory that would work.

    The manual says this:
    “<< USB B – Type B USB connection for multi-channel bi-directional audio streaming between the mixer and a computer. Follows the high speed USB 2.0 standard.
    Refer to the Allen & Heath web site for information on Windows® and Apple® Mac drivers available for Qu. >> ”

    What is ‘follows’? Does it exactly meet the standard or does it not?
    Does not say to only use USB2.
    Mentions drivers needed.
    Those should be standard and come with windoze and be automatically installed.
    Should not need to be downloaded. But if so, the downloaded standards should work with usb3 ports as well as usb2.

    So the question remains: Just what is the problem and why wont AH just tell us to make our job easier.

    #90943
    Profile photo of Frank
    Frank
    Participant

    @volounteer:
    “Should not need any database of drives that might work.
    They should just work. Period. Like they all do in my PC.

    Some usb flash drives work. others do not work. mostly seems random.”

    Yes that’s true, but it depends on how fast the drives can read/write audiostreams und there seem to be differences. The traffic for audiostreaming of a lot of channels in *.wav format seems to be enormous…

    And on the backside of the QU16 below the USB-Socket you can read “USB B 2.0”. It is pitty but this means, that this is the working standard. A&H couldn’t know, that Intel changed the downcompatibility routines with USB 3 standard… I think, that’s the reason for the problems… but anyway, we have to live with it in some way, testing working solutions or buy another mixer, for example Midas M32R, which has not such USB-problems, as I know until now…

    I can live with the USB problems now, using a working USB-stick (did buy 5 of them for the future) an using my old Lenovo Thinkpad 410. And when Corona is over, I will test the above printer-USB-cable, if it solves the problem with my new Lenovo Ideapad, which has only USB 3 ports on mainboard (The mixer is not at home, so I am not able to test in the moment).

    #90949
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @frank

    if only…

    All we need to do is back up the data.
    Speed has ZERO to do with that.
    It just flat out refuses to recognize the drive to format it.
    Format it per specs in another device and it still won’t use it.

    If intel did that then the industry should be suing them for not following the standard.
    Surprised AH did not switch vendors and come out with new line of mixers much earlier to avoid the problems.

    If AH was trying to protect us somehow then they need to stop that. Fix the firmware that blocks using a valid device.
    Win10 screws me over more with their guessing at what I might be trying to do and protecting me from my making mistakes while making things worse and harder for me.

    We can live with the Qu since I found an OLD usb2 in my junk drawer that had not been used but which works.
    But it would be nice to find some more in case we want to back it up, or even play back files using that port.
    If the problem is really intel then AH should have been telling us that, not just saying see some useless database.

    #91017
    Profile photo of Doc
    Doc
    Participant

    Hi everyone,

    I am very new to the community. I feel like I have lost functionality with the qu16 after I updated my Mac iOS to Catalina. It sounds like a decimator effect with anything that is processed out of the computer. Did I mess something up somehow or is this a thing? Any help would be greatly appreciated. It was working fine and now it is not.

    Thanks in advance

    #91353
    Profile photo of Jline
    Jline
    Participant

    @Doc, I’m pretty sure that the latest firmware for the QU (1.95) still does NOT support Mac OS Catalina. Most likely you will need to restore your Mac to an older OS.

    #91357
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @Doc

    Yes.

    you updated the mac.

    #91381
    Profile photo of Alex A&H
    Alex A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Doc,

    The Qu is supported for audio streaming on MacOS Catalina, so it’s possible that this is an optimisation issue on the Mac.

    I recommend following the steps in this article: http://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/1204

    Thanks!
    Alex

    #91398
    Profile photo of Jline
    Jline
    Participant

    Good to know, thanks for the clarification Alex. FYI, the release notes for firmware 1.95 do not indicate that Mojave or Catalina are supported:

    “ USB streaming is compatible with Mac / Windows PC computers. Mac OSX versions currently supported are 10.13 (High Sierra), 10.12 (Sierra), 10.11 (El Capitan), 10.10 (Yosemite), 10.9 (Mavericks), 10.8 (Mountain Lion), 10.7 (Lion), and 10.6 Snow Leopard.”

    #91422
    Profile photo of Alex A&H
    Alex A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Jline,

    We don’t normally update release notes when support for new operating systems is confirmed as the release notes coincide with the release of the firmware. MacOS Mojave and Catalina came out after this firmware was released.

    We may update them in this case, as although there haven’t been any changes in the firmware to enable support for the new MacOS, I can see how them not being included in the release notes can cause confusion.

    Thanks
    Alex

    #91813
    Profile photo of MegaUnbalanced
    MegaUnbalanced
    Participant

    SO, three years ago I learned the hard way our A&H QU desk did not like computers with intel USB3 chipsets: https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/qu24-drops-all-signals-for-a-second#post-66240

    At that time a Macbook Pro and QU wouldn´t work together and we learned that after some painfully long seconds of no audio in the house during the shows, and in the middle of a premiere. Three years has gone, this contemporary circus company I worked for has since upgraded their desk to SQ5 and I have assisted them with some occasional mixing jobs here and there. As I´m now preparing for the next two years as the sound designer and audio engineer for their main show, I´m back here to check how old issues have been solved. And I´m amazed to find out that the issue with USB streaming is still here with the more recent desks.. It would be hard to express my feelings in a tactful manner so I choose to not do so.

    The next design I’ll be working on will probably be based on using Ableton Live together with the main desk. I want to be able to command the desk mutes and possibly other things with midi from Live. The scenes in Live will be used for creating and modifying automation for the desk along with launching and streaming audio from Live to desk. This all happens together with more traditional band/performer mixing duties. So all in all, a computer needs to be connected to the desk with usb.

    I’m currently going through all the audio gear this company possesses and advising them on purchases for the next two years. It appears I have two options: 1) to tell them to invest on another digital A&H desk as they already have SQ5 and A&H stageboxes as it would be convenient to use them all together. The problem is that then I would also have to advice them to search for almost ten years old computers with only usb2 to accompany the desks so they would work together reliably. That would surely sound strange.

    The other option would be to advice them to ditch the desk they upgraded for, get rid of the A&H stageboxes and invest on another system (Did someone think Behringer aloud?). That will certainly sound bad for the company too, as they´re trying to struggle through cancelled premieres and corona impact.

    So, I presume there is no reliable solution for my dilemma and this usb streaming problem from the manufacturer (I mean A&H)?

    If so, has anyone tested any fairly recent, sensibly priced notebooks with low dpc latency and reliable usb connection with A&H qu mixers? Any users with ryzen notebooks, do they use non-intel usb3 chipsets and do they work? What other notebook options are there other than the ancient ones? Any feedback concerning specific models (not general advice) would be appreciated. Optimizing windows machines is familiar to me and for many of the readers I believe, but I would love to hear any information on recent specific A&H USB compatible notebooks.

    I know this thread is about USB streaming issues and solving them, not about notebook advice. However as there doesn’t seem to be a definitive solution from the manufacturer I guess the closest option would be to find out which specific machines work reliably with QU/USB. Well, apart from ditching the A&H ecosystem anyway.

    And for the A&H people, don’t get me wrong, I appreciate all your work and love mixing with these desks. It’s just that an unsolved hardware issue which is left plaguing later models makes me feel very uncomfortable. I thought I would not have to start figuring this out again as the company I work for had upgraded their desk.

    Cheers,

    Antti

    #91814
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @megaunbalanced

    I would seriously look at getting an older pc/laptop with usb2 only.
    The prices are dirt cheap compared to new ones so you could afford to buy several refurbbed ones to avoid a failure that leaves you out in the cold.

    Could you help explain why usb3 is a problem since it is supposedly fully compatible with usb2 devices?
    Is that a USB spec problem or an AH PHB making a bad design decision for the engineers?

    #91815
    Profile photo of MegaUnbalanced
    MegaUnbalanced
    Participant

    Yeah older machines would work, only thing is that they are pretty weak on cpu considering current standards.

    If you go through this thread you will find what is said about the source of problem. My understanding is that intel has not followed the spec on implementing usb3 and a&h desks have therefore problems with connecting to computers with intel usb3 chipsets. What I don’t understand is why A&H didn’t change their hardware for the newer desks. Apparently other similarly priced desks do not have such problems, although I’m not expert on that.

    #91816
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @megaunbalanced

    But do they have enough CPU to do what you need?

    Old low cpu AND work
    versus
    New HIGH cpu AND FAIL

    Seems easy enough choice to me.

    Why would any company use intel chips if they did not conform to the spec not just sort of follow it.

    Is the problem really intel or is it AH whose documentation says that they FOLLOW the standard
    but does not say they conform to it. Or did both of them merely ‘follow’ it but did it differently?

    My big question is Why does usb3/usb2 mix match on my computer and other gear without problems? Yet they fail on the Qu.

    #91819
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    So, I presume there is no reliable solution for my dilemma and this usb streaming problem from the manufacturer (I mean A&H)?

    the reliable solution would be DANTE

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