Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

[TizianParticipant]

Hardware Solution QU – Series
(Driver Crash and Digital Noise during Audio Streaming)

First read my Post from 23.11.2019 about the QU Series issues please.

In December 2018 I found the solution for the problem.
First I want to describe my special Hard- and Software Constellation using live on stage.

Hardware
I’m working with an 1U Rack PC Mini ITX Board GA – H270N – WIFI, 16GB Ram, 1TB SSD Samsung. Amplifier LAB Gruppen IDP 1200 & 2400 series, Mixer QU 16, Seeburg Acoustic Line G-Sub 12″ & 15″ TSM 10 as Tops, Master keyboard M-Audio Ctrl 49, FBT or In Ear Systems for Monitoring, Wireless Microphones, some LED headlights for the Lightshow.

Software
I play and control sounds with my Master Keyboard using Ableton Live as a Host with Spectrasonic Omnisphere & Native Instruments and Freestyler for the Lightshow.
Streaming the sounds with Asio Driver via USB to the QU Mixers Stereo 1 Channel (17&18)

Live on Stage I play in different constellations (One-man-band, Duo or Trio) and working with Multi Audio Tracks. For example Bass, Drums, Instruments and Voices are single tracks.
To play without stress on stage I use the Multiperformer Software (MPS) developed and supported by Miditool in Germany, even with this professional Software I can mute the instruments I want to play live and control the QU (Soft Keys, Fader, Mute…), the Lightshow, Amplifier and so on specifically for each song.

When streaming audios from he MPS to the QU I use the Asio driver adjusting in the MPS Software.
Instruments to QU Channel 7&8, Bass to Channel 9&10, Drums to channel 11&12, Voices to channel 15&16.
On the PC I use an USB3 port to stream the Audios from MPS, the Sounds I play on the Master Keyboard from Ableton and the Midi Data integrated in the MPS control panel to the USB B port at the QU.
It works very fine and exactly, only the issues like driver crash and digital noise were terrible.

SOLUTION
The problem is the EMC (Electromagnetic Compatibility).
Short example: Turning on or of an refrigerator witch is on the same circuit like your equipment transforms voltage pulse. This pulses are able to disturb the USB connection between the computer and the QU. The result is driver crash or digital noise.
To protect the system from that issues use special USB & Power cables from PARTSDATA (Germny) and GLOCKENKLANG (Thomann).

USB 2.0 Kabel mit zwei Ferritkernen Premium+ Industriequalität von PARTSDATA (Germany).
Art.-Nr CU-HQ-10 (1m) CU-HQ-20 (2m) CU-HQ-30 (3m)

Glockenklang High End Power Cable from THOMANN (Germany).
Art.-Nr 139095

Use only this cables and your QU is protected, it works since 6 months without issues on stage and in my studio. Have great fun with my QU16 mixer now.

For more information read the PDF in the annex. I wrote the document in German, but I think it is easy to understand.

Best regards, Tizian

[Anonymous]

Interesting?
The QU has switch mode power supply and… not that I know the circuit I would have assumed there would be sufficient filtering for spurious spikes in there?
I couldn’t find your first post

[TizianParticipant]

My Post – Link: https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/digital-noise-when-streaming-audio-via-usb-b/page/6

Tizian 2018/11/23 at 2:36 am

[Anonymous]

@Tizian
With your particular setup:
Have you tried using for live applications, especially with streaming a quality UPS?
And I do mean a quality UPS.

I have done multitrack recordings [QU to PC USB3] for many years in a particular hall where the voltage drops from 230 down to 190 volts at a certain time of the day and I could hear the small fold back speakers hemorrhaging from low voltage but the multitrack recording has been perfect.
I always use an UPS however my UPS are not quality units but they are just in case power goes right off.

[TizianParticipant]

Sorry, but I delete the pdf in the annex of my last post, you can read now her.

Attachments:

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[FrankParticipant]

Wow, Tizian, great work!!! I gave up until now and used only an old Lenovo Thinkpad TP 410 with only USB 2.0 ports with my QU 16… this worked fine, but I always feared the day, when the TP 410 blows out his live :-(. But with your solution I will try to use again my brandnew Lenovo ideapad with only USB 3 ports for this. I ordered the two cables yet. I had always digital noise, when playback music from the USB 3 laptop to the QU 16. No difference, if playing simple mp3 or multitrack recordings from Cubase… Underneath I do only recordings to USB-stick and rearrange at home on the PC with Cubase. I mostly need the USB for recording. Playback I give into the mixer via stereoinput out of a tablet…

[Anonymous]

@frank
Hope it works for you
I have been experimenting with a 10 metre powered USB cable. USB 2 that is.

Can you put the links to those cables up for others to find easily?
Thankyou

[FrankParticipant]

https://www.thomann.de/de/glockenklang_high_end_powercable.htm
https://www.partsdata.de/usb-2.0/usb-2.0-kabel-ab/premium-mit-2-ferritkernen-fuer-industrieeinsatz/cu-hq-20/usb-2.0-kabel-mit-2-ferritkernen-in-premium-industriequalitaet-2m?c=2519
But these are german shop-links…

like in the post of Tizian, you can google it by yourselve also. That was the way I found it… 🙂

USB 2.0 PARTSDATA Art.-Nr CU-HQ-10 (1m) CU-HQ-20 (2m) CU-HQ-30 (3m)

Glockenklang High End Power Cable from THOMANN Art.-Nr 139095

[Anonymous]

Thank you Frank. I just wanted to see the specs.
I have tried Ferrite beads and ther actual cable specs.
See I have never had an issue with both PC or Mac although I only had 2011 Imacs and MacBookPro high end.

So the specs on those 3 metre cables:
USB cable 3m, USB 2.0, quality PREMIUM + (for industrial use): 2 ferrite cores, thicker copper wires 26AWG / 1P 20AWG / 2C, 30μm gold plated connectors (A / B), double shielding foil u. Braided screen (85% coverage), black

Yes some of life is all about the weakest link! :+}
If anything helps people then great!
Cheers
NZdave

[bootaParticipant]

so is this still an issue on the SQ series? I’m very close to ordering an sq7 for my church, but I need recording and playing back over usb to work for our workflow.

Edit: we’re using a 2014 Mac mini for recording and playing back audio.

[FrankParticipant]

I only can talk about QU 16, perhaps anybody else about SQ7?

[ChidgeParticipant]

quickly reading this topic, it sounds like an earthing issue. has anyone experienced this issue on a laptop (not connected to a power source) just running on battery? i am hoping not. this used to happen to a few interfaces i had before switching to firewire as it has a grounding pin. solved all my issues.

[Big-AzzParticipant]

Has there been ant update to this issue I’ve been battling with this for over a year

[FrankParticipant]

No, Version 1.95 alwas up to date and no solution because this is a internal problem, which will not be solved with firmware-updates. Only all above possibilites for solutions. Everybody has to try, if something helps for him…

[volounteerParticipant]

@Chidge

Why do you think it is an earthing issue? It might be, but my intuition and experience says it is due to another problem.

Is the huge problem of finding a USB memory stick that works also an earthing/ground problem?

Sounds like time to have a database of pcs&opsys&drivers that work right with the usb b connection.

[Author]

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