Can't mute channel in a mix

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Ryan Ryan 3 weeks, 5 days ago.

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  • #91720
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
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    @mikec

    then his choices are limited

    sometimes you should actually train volounteers not let them learn by trial and error
    how hard is it to teach someone to lower a fader not push a mute button

    #91722
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    Hmm, and why it is not possible to select the channel, go to the routing screen and switch the aux send to off? Or use the routing screen of the mix master, and there you can see all channels in an overview and you can alsoswitch the channels on or off.
    Lowering the faders is not even a practical workaround because after that you do not know the original position of the send fader.

    #91723
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
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    @mfk0815

    pretty much the same expecting volounteers to do that when just moving a fader seems to be a problem
    I would be afraid that they would forget to undo it later

    Why not have more separate mixes and mute the mix you do not want and activate the one you do or is that a GLD limitation

    #91724
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    It is a question of understanding. The softbuttons on the routing page are in fact mute buttons. But because the meaning of the mute functionality is that the whole channel strip is muted with all mixes, there is this different naming.
    Other consoles allows you to use the sends on fader mode to use the mute buttons of the channel strips (yamaha naming is ON) to switch the send of that channel to the bus on or off, but the functionality is the same.
    Ah, I forgot that on the GLD you can use in the mix mode the assign button between the fader banks together with the Mix button of the channel to toggle on or of. So you do not need the routing page. Instructions can be foundin the User Guide, page 10.

    And no it is not the same to forget the current state of a switch (two possible positions) and the correct level of a fader (more or less infinite positions, theoretically).

    #91726
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mfk0815

    depends how golden your ears are

    I would just eyeball the fader at about x inches up and/or note the db marking on the scale for recall.
    Could I be off a bit? of course.
    does it make any difference? only to a few golden eared snobs who think they need a fraction of a dB accuracy.

    #91734
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    Ah, I forgot that on the GLD you can use in the mix mode the assign button between the fader banks together with the Mix button of the channel to toggle on or of. So you do not need the routing page. Instructions can be foundin the User Guide, page 10.

    Using the assign button to check routing or turn on or off mix assignments is a good idea.
    They would first need to select the mix needed and then use the assign button.

    For those following along the assign button is to the left of the select button row, when you press the assign button all the select buttons light up on the channels that are assigned to the selected mix, holding the assign button down and then going to the channel select buttons you can toggle that channel on or off in the mix that is selected and you can also change the pre post selection with the pre button.
    It’s a hand feature I tend to take for granted sometimes!

    All the Allen Heath digital mixers have that function, I’ve used it on the QU, SQ and GLD.

    I think the idea though is to keep this as simple as possible, for the novice user that is still a lot of buttons to keep track of.

    Sometimes the needs and level of system complexity gets to point where you may need more than just button pushers to effectively operate the sound system.

    #91735
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mikec

    true

    but you have to mix with the volounteers you have not the volounteers you wish you had
    so best to set things up to be as simple as possible.
    even if they know what to do they cannot always do it under pressure quickly enough when it is complicated

    if churches would provide meaningful training it would be a big help
    the socratic method of trial and error is not efficient nor effective

    #91754
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    Working with volunteers with proper skills and knowledge is a complete organisational task not a technical one. If the supervisor fail in the choice of operators there is no „simple as possible“. Even switching on the devices in the right order will be a problem then.
    And btw. All of the sound engineers i know, regardless whether they are pro, semi-pro or amateur, are volunteers because no one is forced to to the job. So do not use this word for people which to the job willingly but without the ability to do it.

    #91775
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @mfk0815

    disagree.
    it is more a management problem not a technical one. everybody needs to be trained.
    some need more some less, some learn faster, others slower.
    and PRO means you get paid. you make a living or at least want/need the money.
    volounteer means doing it for free, donating your time, and getting the job done because you want to help.

    there is NO choice of operators. at least for us in our church. you take any warm body that is willing, or do without.
    worst case the MD would have to try to run it remotely from his tablet while doing everything else onstage from talking, playing, conducting, yada yada.

    some volounteers are very experienced and they get the heavy work with much activity and bigger audiences.
    others are totally new and are willing to learn. they will get the very low intensity jobs.
    some no matter how well intentioned are just not up to the job. often they miss synchronizing slides with words to the music by not paying attention to what is happening on stage.

    we do have cheat sheets for such things as turning on/off the gear properly. how to record on CD. how to play back PPT slides.
    but as much as possible is prebaked in the settings so they do not need to be concerned. eg the phantom power
    and they have soft buttons to handle many settings needed when switching from music to the pastor talking.

    #91776
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    It is not really important for me what your church, or any other community, no matter of which religion or no such background, is doing in their rooms. What make me angry is that it is always used as an excuse for bad knowledge of such “volunteers” and a reason to blame the manufacturer for not providing simple to use or simple to learn technical devices. Digital mixing consoles of all manufactures are complex things build for professional sound engineers not for children (in mind). an d if somebody wants to use them they have to learn to think like a professional sound engineer. And being a professional engineer has nothing to do with how much money you will get for the job. “professional” means to take the job serious and do all required to make it good. And if you are not able to do the required, let it be. Not every person can be a good musician, and this is true also for sound engineers. Before you work with an untalented sound engineer do your stuff unplugged. God will hear you in either way. You always have a choice, something which also comes from God, it the bible is true. So do not say you have to work with those untalented “volunteers”. But, again, I don’t care what your community is doing or not doing. But please stop to rant always when something is not “simple as possible”.

    So, now I am thru with that “volunteer” issue, back to topic. And what we learned in this thread is that there are several ways to switch off the sends of particular channels for particular mix buses. The operator just have to learn how to do that in the one or the other way. Then it is easy and simple. But if the operator can or will not learn that lesson, it would be hard. That’s it.

    #91777
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
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    2Mfk0815

    I am not blaming the makers for any of the gear and how it is used.
    And the set up was done by the dealer and MD who has a lot of experience on the AH analog board,
    but does not know digital. Was it set up best way possible? dunno, but it was set up good enough.
    I do wish they had rung the room out with the pink noise generator first.

    I merely noted that churches need to train people to use the gear.
    A cheat sheet is nice but not always enough.
    It is one thing to know sound theory and another to know what buttons to push and when.
    And even if they know they may not be able to do it easily and fast.
    Especially when an unexpected ’emergency’ happens.

    #91779
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    Hmm, who said that it is better to learn how to fish than to give them the fishes? That’s the same here. Giving them exact cheat sheets or whatever instructions ever, is the same as giving them fishes. Teach them to know the internal of the console and the required theory will give them the tools to handle even emergency situations. Trying to make the job simpler is avoid them from getting better and better. So while you think that you help them you prevent them from doing the job.
    And “I do wish they had rung the room out with the pink noise generator first.” is the same story. When you start to learn to ring out the room on your own you will never be dependent from others. That’s the way I learned the job and I still learn every day, even after 40 years. Because I am willing to learn and not to be dependent from others. And the greatest thing of all, there is only one thing what human being cannot do. They cannot stop learning new stuff. So let them learn and help them to improve. Then at the end of the day no excuses will be needed any more.

    #91783
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    I am not blaming the makers for any of the gear and how it is used.

    WHAT!!! You do that all the time, do you ever go back read your post?

    #91785
    Profile photo of Steffen R
    Steffen R
    Participant

    I am not blaming the makers for any of the gear and how it is used.

    really?
    don’t believe it

    #91787
    Profile photo of Ryan
    Ryan
    Participant

    Well perhaps I’m just going crazy. I was 99% certain that the mute functioned they way I had mentioned. Even the “User Guide” is against me, it mentions that the mute button mutes channel, sends, and FOH. I very much appreciate the help. I will just have to tell the guys to use the faders. Thanks anyways!

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