AMM help needed

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of LXGuy LXGuy 1 year, 7 months ago.

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  • #73431
    Profile photo of TheMAXX
    TheMAXX
    Participant

    I am very familiar with Automixers, a little bit with the Dan Dugan but mostly with the Shure SCM810. Today working with a local sound company we installed an SQ6 (with its version of an Automixer the AMM) in a room where they have board meetings. There will be 20 wireless table top gooseneck mics and 2 Hand Held wireless mics. The already installed ceiling speaker system that we had to tie inot isn’t the greatest but it is usable and should be fine with everything on the AMM. I got the system sounding pretty good with one of the table top mics. In my experience since I have done this many times before, I figured I could just add the other table top mics but before I got past 4 of them up I was having feedback issues. I have been able to do a similar thing with 30 wireless bodypacks that with the Automixer working I could get one working and add all of the others with no problems, because the output was always equal to one mic. I know this (SQ Mixer AMM) is an attempt at a Dan Dugan style of automixer but it isn’t working like one. Are there any tricks to making this work better? I have all of the channel priority levels set to 0, do I need to decrease the priority level on all of the channels to make things work. I ran out of time today and actually have to teach the client how to use this early on Monday. I did get it all working with all of the mics turned up but not with the kind of gain I feel I should have.

    Does anybody have any experience with this type of scenario with the AMM or have any suggestions.

    #73432
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I have not as yet used the AMM on an SQ. I have on a QU. I assume they are similar other than the strip assign on SQ. I am assuming you have read the manual on AMM. I just looked at it and it seems similar to QU. Last time on a QU16 I had 10 desk mics on a conference. Didn’t have any feedback issues when the AMM was on.

    Make sure you have the ON buttons on and the IN buttons engaged.

    #73434
    Profile photo of TheMAXX
    TheMAXX
    Participant

    Thank you for your suggestions.

    I actually read the SQ manual and the GLD manual I didn’t read the QU manual. The GLD seems to have another option as to how the AMM can work but that is not available on the SQ. And yes everything is on where it is supposed to be. And I also tried turning it off and it is functioning just not (with the default priority levels) how Automixers have in my experience.

    I wasn’t going to say this because it sounds like bragging but when I say I do know a lot about automixers. I was a panelists with Dan Dugan at an AES conference in NYC on “Auto Mixing for live sound”. My specialty is the Shure SCM810 mixer, (with a bunch of them) linked together for panel discussions and also for the dialog parts in Musicals. And I only say that now so that people will know I probably didn’t do something simple wrong.

    #73435
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    Well you obviously have had much more experience with them than I have. I did beta testing for AH on the GLD AMM. Have never used any others. The times I have on QU seemed to work well. I installed a QU-PAC at our city hall for commission meetings. 10 mics. Seem to operate as designed.
    I have a courthouse that has a QU16 for commission meetings. 12 mics. They chose to operate in gate mode. All mics gated. As far as I know that has worked ok for them.

    #73436
    Profile photo of TheMAXX
    TheMAXX
    Participant

    Thank you.

    This part of my original post is the critical part.

    I got the system sounding pretty good with one of the table top mics. In my experience since I have done this many times before, I figured I could just add the other table top mics but before I got past 4 of them up I was having feedback issues. I have been able to do a similar thing with 30 wireless bodypacks that with the Automixer working I could get one working and add all of the others with no problems, because the output was always equal to one mic. I know this (SQ Mixer AMM) is an attempt at a Dan Dugan style of automixer but it isn’t working like one

    #73437
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I read that already. What are you trying to say more than you’ve already said? I know you’re trying to add credibility but we’re not getting anywhere. If this mixer doesn’t work as you expected then you need to replace it. I have not used one in this way.

    #73438
    Profile photo of TheMAXX
    TheMAXX
    Participant

    I was trying to emphasize exactly what it is I am experiencing so that anyone else who reads this that might know the answer will hopefully be able to understand my issue. I am not a writer I just play one on the internet and I am not always sure I am making my point it writing something. I use a lot of words but I am not always sure if my point gets across in the sea of words.

    BTW the SQ AMM doesn’t have the gated (I think they call that one the NOM – Number of Open Mics) method available. I am assuming that the SQ uses the original not the improved Dugan style Gain Sharing method and it should always be equal to the output of one mic as more mics are talked into. The Patent expired on the original Dugan method so that is what people copy. The Dugan Auto mixing improvement patents haven’t expired, to the best of my knowledge. At lest that is what he said last time I talked to him.

    #89363
    Profile photo of LXGuy
    LXGuy
    Participant

    Hi – not much in the way of help here, but my experience has been quite different to yours.

    I use the QU-24 and SQ-7 AMM regularly for various corporate setups ranging from 5-30 goosenecks on hollow square or boardroom style tables in very challenging rooms quite regularly with great success. We Also often integrate them with video/teleconferencing. I’ve had the opportunity to put the QU side by side with the X-32 and SCM810 auto mixing solutions driving 25 mics (thus pushing the QU well past it’s AMM channel limits), the A&H solutions outperformed by a country mile with simplicity and cost being as important as fidelity to us (to be fair the operator using the competing systems was less familiar with this type of configuration, but it was essentially factory defaults vs factory defaults). We often have to set the system and leave it unattended as our clients wants extreme privacy – yet to have any complaints and have had several clients write down the system specs to take back to their regular providers in the US or UK.

    I’m still learning the SQ7 as it is a recent purchase, however experiences like you describe are a result of routing errors here – I am often seeing my staff accidently creating feedback loops during setup… Generally setting mic priorities has only been necessary for the QU, We have been running the SQ with almost factory default AMM settings, only tweaking individual channels here and there if needed.

    Audio is not my primary discipline, but I have used most of the usual digital and analogue production desks over the last 20 years and the SQ7 is the first desk I look forward to using. It’s not perfect, but for my needs, it’s proving to be the best available tool for the job.

    If you want to post a couple of screen shots of your settings I can do the same and perhaps we can see a difference between the two?

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