Adjusting the amount of effect per channel in monitor mix

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of [XAP]Bob [XAP]Bob 6 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #42179
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Hi Guys
    I’m guessing this is not possible but am I able to adjust the amount of a single effect per channel in monitor mix?

    So lets say I’m using ONE reverb on 2 x vocals and the same reverb on an acoustic guitar in the monitor mix.
    In the monitor mix I want to hear DRY vocals, but reverb on the acoustic guitar.
    When I turn the reverb up and down on FX1 Return it of course effects the reverb on both the vocals AND the acoustic guitar channels in the monitor mix.

    I am so far working around this by using the same reverb effect but on a second FX Return.

    I hope this make sense.

    #42183
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Can’t split the reverb after combining it into one return, so you’re doing it right.

    For a single guitar you might want to insert the FX rather than using a send/return?

    #42202
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    For a single guitar you might want to insert the FX rather than using a send/return?

    Hi
    Thanks for the advise. What difference will this make please?
    Sorry, but I’m a bit new to fancy mixers like the QU16 (Coming from an old Yamaha)….but I’m learning πŸ™‚

    #42204
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Rather than using a separate send/return it acts like an FX unit plugged into the insert jack on your old yamaha πŸ˜‰

    So you get the FX through anything fed from that channel, and an additional control on the effect – to see how wet you want the signal.
    It still takes up an FX unit separately from the vocal, but doesn’t take an additional send/return (possibly only a limit on the QU-16, I’ve not got the numbers of FX/sends/returns in my head for the larger models).

    The advantage is that you can run another FX as a send/return layout – if you don’t want/need another FX unit it’s not a problem, but you might want to at some point in the future – so it’s useful to file away the knowledge.

    #42272
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    Rather than using a separate send/return it acts like an FX unit plugged into the insert jack on your old yamaha πŸ˜‰

    So you get the FX through anything fed from that channel, and an additional control on the effect – to see how wet you want the signal.
    It still takes up an FX unit separately from the vocal, but doesn’t take an additional send/return (possibly only a limit on the QU-16, I’ve not got the numbers of FX/sends/returns in my head for the larger models).

    The advantage is that you can run another FX as a send/return layout – if you don’t want/need another FX unit it’s not a problem, but you might want to at some point in the future – so it’s useful to file away the knowledge.

    Thanks for your advice.

    So, at the minute I have:-

    FX Send 1/FX Return 1 – Doubler (Solely vocals on Ch 1 & 2)
    FX Send 2/FX Return 2 – Reverb (For everything except acoustic guitar that I want to put reverb on)
    (Using as FX Send 3) Mix 9-10/FX Return 3 – Gated Verb
    (Using as FX Send 4) Mix 7-8/FX Return 4 – Reverb for acoustic guitar

    3 lots of monitor mixes
    Mix 1
    Mix 2
    Mix 3

    With this configuration I’m able to independently control amount of effects FOH and amount of effect in each monitor mix

    This is the “Correct” was of doing it yeah?

    So how do I add what your saying?

    #42275
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    I presume the Mix outputs are then looped to stereo inputs?

    The alternative is to set the acoustic guitar fx as an insert into that channel. But I’m going to refer you to the manual for the button presses, the manual is pretty good!

    (hint it’s an option on the FX “back panel” I think)

    #42284
    Profile photo of coffee_king
    coffee_king
    Participant

    I presume the Mix outputs are then looped to stereo inputs?

    Hi Bob
    I’m sorry but I’m not sure what you mean there? Mix 1, 2, 3 are my bands IEM mixes.
    Could you advise further please?

    #42286
    Profile photo of eotsskleet
    eotsskleet
    Participant

    There are a few possibilities to achieve what you want.. But i think best is to use FX3 engine for your guitar only. Set this FX up as Mix-return and assign your guitar channel to this FX3 unit (it’s not inserting the effect in your channel!) it’s kind of sending your guitar signal paralell to your dry signal into the fx3 engine, with the FX3-Return-Fader you control now the amount of the return effect on your mixes! Have a look at the manual if you don’t understand, there should be a good explanation about this in the FX section!

    #42287
    Profile photo of cornelius78
    cornelius78
    Participant

    Why not use a channel-return?

    In using an effect as an insert you get a wet/dry control, but that one setting sort of builds the reverb sound into the channel, and therefore affects the sound of that channel in all mixes and LR. Want less gtr verb in mix1 but more gtr verb in mix2? Can’t do it with an insert. Increasing the wetness of that insert (I’m sure there’s a proper way of saying that) will make that guitar sound verb-ier everywhere it’s routed.

    So of course the alternative is to do a send-return. As you can control the amount of return in each mix, you can have different levels of verb in each mix (eg a lot on FOH, a bit in Mix1, none in Mix2 etc.) Unfortunately, this takes up an FX send bus, and the Qu16 only has 2 dedicated FX send buses, which the OP is already using for his ADT and other reverb. Thankfully the Qu allows you to also feed the FX engines from mix1-10, as the OP is doing, which is useful, providing you weren’t planning to use those mixes to feed monitors.

    A&H have another solution: the channel-return. Instead of summing inputs to a mix and then feeding the fx engine with that mix, as is the case with the send-return, this channel-return configuration feeds the fx engine directly from the output of a single channel. There’s no summing of channels (as you’re only feeding it with one channel) but is useful when you want an effect on a single channel (like the OP’s gtr, or a gated verb on a snare drum, or a crazy delay on a signle vocal) and want different amounts of that FX return in different mixes. You can have a lot of the FX in LR by raising the return fader a lot in LR, you can have a little bit of the effect in the monitor mixes by raising the fader only a little bit in the monitor mixes (as you do with a normal send-return configuration.) The good thing is in using this channel-return is that you haven’t burnt up an entire mixbus in the process. If later on it turn out you need more monitor mixes, or you want to patch in an external FX processor, you’ve got spare mixes available to feed them, without needing to sacrifice your existing internal FX engines.

    PS, apologies for spelling and grammar. I’m tired and not thinking entirely clearly.

    #42288
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    The FX3 and 4 have a return, but they don’t have a mix available.

    Page 44 of the manual (http://www.allen-heath.com/media/Qu-Mixer-User-Guide-AP9372_4.pdf) describes the three configurations possible:

    Mix -> Return. Using the dedicated FX mixes OR two of the 10 “normal” mixes as the input – pure wet signal is returned on the FX return.

    Channel -> Return. Instead of a mix this takes the Direct Out of the channel (being aware of the global direct out config) so it probably ideal for the OP. The pure wet signal is returned via the FX return.

    Insert. Here the FX is patched inline with the channel, and the FX gains a wet/dry control to determine the FX level. The insert point (page 24) is Post preamp, pre EQ.

    Given the Guitar requirement Channel-> Return looks a likely choice.
    Although with a number of free mixes available you could use those instead.

    #42293
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    Unless I’m missing something, then a very simple thing is being made over complicated here.

    With the set up:
    “FX Send 1/FX Return 1 – Doubler (Solely vocals on Ch 1 & 2)
    FX Send 2/FX Return 2 – Reverb (For everything except acoustic guitar that I want to put reverb on)
    (Using as FX Send 3) Mix 9-10/FX Return 3 – Gated Verb
    (Using as FX Send 4) Mix 7-8/FX Return 4 – Reverb for acoustic guitar

    3 lots of monitor mixes
    Mix 1
    Mix 2
    Mix 3”

    it is simple to send any amount of each effects return to each of mixes 1, 2 or 3, (as well as to L+R). The effects returns are just another 4 (stereo) input channels really – but limited as to what you can put

      into

    them.

    What you can’t do of course, is have (say) the Doubler for only vocal channel one in mix one and only vocal channel two in mix two, as the two are already mixed together within the effects unit.

    Inserting an effect on one channel (so the acoustic guitar reverb here) can be useful, but once the relative amount of wet & dry is set that’s it – you can’t have more reverb in the mons than in FOH, which you could if you used an effect return channel.

    #42295
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    I hadn’t realised until just above that I could route mixes to FX, nor that I had all 4 FX returns.

    In the OP case the answer is, as you say, simple. In the more general case (I.e. for the benefit of me in 6 months time) the complete answer is useful πŸ˜‰

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