Adding Routing tab to send Mixes to Mains

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of [XAP]Bob [XAP]Bob 5 years ago.

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  • #55101
    Profile photo of Ben
    Ben
    Participant

    Why can’t you route mixes to mains?

    #55102
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Because its a Mix not a Group.
    A Mix has additional processing which adds intenal latency and lead to phase problems when mixed back to LR.

    #55104
    Profile photo of Ben
    Ben
    Participant

    Many other consoles treat mixes as generic Busses that can either be utilized as an “Aux” send or “Sub group” with a GEQ rack you have to route and or insert. It’s very customizable being to switch from Effect engines to GEQ engines and inserting them on mixes and or channels. This adds flexibility but I understand it can be more costly to have that much more DSP, but why not add the function to treat the mixes as subgroups?

    The only phase problems I would occur if I’m routing the original channels to the mains as well.

    What additional processing do mixes have vs groups on the Qu32?

    I thoroughly enjoy this console but this is my biggest gripe about it.

    #55106
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Indeed, Groups on the Qu have the same set of processing as Mixes (PEQ+GEQ+Compressor+Delay) plus Ducker (didn’t checked before writing, sorry).
    Not providing Groups on Qu16 seems to be a pretty intended restriction to differentiate from the larger models.
    Since we have the option to convert Groups to Mixes on the larger consoles, maybe there will be a firmware some time which allows to convert a (stereo) Mix into a Group.

    #55115
    Profile photo of airickess
    airickess
    Participant

    Ben, what are you trying to accomplish by wanting to route a mix to the Mains rather than using a Group?

    #55118
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    He’s on Qu16, no groups there (probably an intended limitation).

    #55127
    Profile photo of Ben
    Ben
    Participant

    Andreas I do feel like it might be intended but I believe there are already enough incentive to get the Qu24 with the extra mixes, channels, ,matrixes and more.
    V 1.8 Release Note

    More Monitor Mixes โ€“ if you have a Qu-24, Qu-32 or Qu-Pac you can now change your Stereo Groups to Auxes. This means that Qu-32 and Qu-Pac can now deliver up to 11 monitor mixes (4 mono + 7 stereo), and Qu-24 offers up to 9 monitor mixes (4 mono + 5 stereo). Qu-16 doesnโ€™t have Groups so weโ€™re not able to offer this facility for Qu-16 users โ€“ sorry!

    It sounds like they would like help the Qu16 users and it’s possible. If they can change Groups to Auxes why not vise versa. I see a lot of topics for Update suggestions that are nice bells and whistles but this would be something that greatly improves the workflow of the console. They added the update above because people wanted it. I believe they will update this as well.

    #55129
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    You’re totally right, that this would be nice for Qu16 owners. But that request is rather old (this one is from 2013) and I’d expect this finally had been implemented with V1.8, if there’s a plan to do so. Maybe there’s a technical limitation why this can’t be added to the Qu16 (i.e. lack of spare physical routing path), but that’s just guessing.
    If you only have to group faders (without addional processing, as we had old analogue days), a DCA may be sufficient enough.

    Anyway: I really wish the Qu16 could switch Mix<->Group to stop this topic from reoccurring… ๐Ÿ˜‰

    #55130
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Just checked Ruben’s FX workaround mentioned in that old thread, maybe that’s a way to “convert” a Mix on Qu16 into a Group using the FX path:
    – Unassign your “grouped” channels from LR
    – Setup your Group-Mix (i.e. Mix9-10) as required
    – Select, for example, FX4 and feed it from your Mix9-10 (Backpanel: Mix->Return, input: Mix9-10)
    – Sadly Empty Rack does not simply forward signal (that’ll be a great additional feature request) so you need to select some FX with minimum impact on your sound. I’ve picked “Phaser Manual” from the Modulators library and turned Mix Resonances to 0 which seems to produce a pretty dry signal.
    – Done.

    #55131
    Profile photo of Ben
    Ben
    Participant

    Thanks for your responses Andreas. The FX3 and FX4 routing would work but unfortunately those channels don’t pass signal unless there is an effect patched in the rack.

    Is there any completely dry effects to insert to work around this?

    #55132
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    The Phaser with Resonances set to 0 seems to be ok.

    #55133
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Just checked the impulse response, with resonance at zero it’s acustically ok but technically not yet flat. You addtionally need to set Offset to zero and Phasing and Resonating stages to their minimum settings. This will produce a rather identical signal on LR.
    You’ll get a delay of about 2mSec, so don’t mix the grouped signal with the original.

    #55152
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    Thanks. I’ll be putting that one in the library.

    #55169
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    You’d have thought that ‘patch leads’ would be a low DSP effect to add ๐Ÿ˜‰

    #55170
    Profile photo of xyz
    xyz
    Participant

    Thankyou.
    So now, do we just need a blank ‘through Effect’ request added to the effects pages?
    Even with only 16 FOH channels from stage, I have always used at least 2 groups. Instruments and vocals.
    The days of the mix wizard supplied a left/right (inserted with EQ and Comp) and then that would combine for a mono send to FOH ๐Ÿ˜

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