GLD80 & Hearback Monitor System Compatibility

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  • #24016
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    I’ve been recruited to run sound for a show this weekend and it will be the first time I’ve used my GLD80 for anyone other than my own band.

    They have asked me to incorporate their Hearback Monitoring System into the setup, along with some wedges and IEM’s. I have the M-Dante card installed on my GLD80, but after reading up on it, it appears I would need the M-MMO card for Cat5 connectivity to the Hearback system. So my guess is the alternative is to run the analogue fan out adapter that connects to the DA-88 multipin plug on the back of the Hearback unit.

    I’d like to hear any recommendations from you seasoned veterans on which path you would suggest. And here’s a link to the Hearback User Guide: http://www.heartechnologies.com/downloads/UsersGuide_HearBack.pdf
    Hearback.jpg

    Also, another question……
    Below I’ve pasted the channel plot they just sent me listing their needs. You’ll see at the very end they want a stereo feed to ‘the camera guy’, so I assume that’s where I would use a matrix and patch it to the back of the GLD80? I’ve never used the matrix feature so I’m in the dark of proper use of it.

    Anyway, I’m would be grateful for any tips and suggestions that would help this rookie out.
    Thanks,
    Joe

    quote:


    CHANNEL PLOT VALLEY ONE SEPT 29 2013

    CHANNEL INSTRUMENT MIC COMP/ GATE REV DELAY

    1- Kick (sub) Joe’s Mic x x
    2- Kick (attack) Joe’s Mic x x
    3- Snare (Top) Joe’s Mic x x x
    4- Snare (Bottom) Joe’s Mic x x
    5- Floor Tom Joe’s Mic x x x
    6- OH L Joe’s Mic x x
    7- OH R Joe’s Mic x x
    8- BASS DIRECT/or D4 x
    9- KEYS L STEREO DI x x
    10- KEYS R STEREO DI x x
    11- E GUITAR 1 (L) SM 57 x x
    12- E GUITAR 1 (R) SM 57 x x
    13- E GUITAR 2 (M) SM 57 x x
    14- ACOUSTIC 1 DI x
    15- ACOUSTIC 2 (L) DI x
    16- ACOUSTIC 2 (R) DI x
    17- LEAD VOX -JOSH ? Josh’s mic x x x x
    18- LEAD VOX -JUSTIN KSM9 or Beta 58A x x x x
    19- LEAD VOX -MORGAN KSM9 or Beta 58A x x x x
    20- BGV VOX -ALLAN SM 58 x x x
    21-
    22- HANDHELD (WIRELESS)
    23- COMPUTER PLAYBACK (L)
    24- COMPUTER PLAYBACK (R)

    ****It would be cool to run 2 crowd mics if we can? Let me know. I’ll bring my Rode NT 5’s or AKG 214’s just in case

    AUX

    JUSTIN -Hear Back + Other Option (I’ll bring my own wireless IEM again if I need to)
    JOSH-Hear Back
    JAMES-Hear Back
    DAVID (Drums) -will need just a line out into his personal mixer which will be on stage with him where he can control volume
    ALLAN-Hear Back
    MORGAN-Hear Back
    MIKE-Hear Back
    Also, we’ll need a stereo feed into the camera guys rig


    Thanks,
    Joe

    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34962
    Profile photo of Sound Doctor
    Sound Doctor
    Participant

    Joe:
    Good luck with this gig, you are a brave soul to take this on. HB is good, have used it extensively with GLD via MMO card (+ 24 track recording at the same time via ADAT outs)until I got hooked on the ME-1’s. I have 6 of those now…love them!

    I do not know if the Dante out will work with the HB system, I doubt
    it.

    Mixing for the HB system will be complex. You only get 6 channels other than the 2 stereo, so you have to be selective in what goes to what channel. With this Setup no one will get a “more ME!” knob, eveything will have to be grouped (vocs, drums, keys, guitars, computer PB, ?). Easiest way to do this is using auxes.
    They also want wedges? Hope you are geting paid well for this one.

    PS Generally the fan tail of the DA-88 are TRS jacks, so you will probably need converters from TRS Fe to XLR Fe.

    You could send the video guy the same stereo mix you will send to the HB unit (probably use 2 return jacks on the GLD console). However with this setup, you will soon run out of return jacks on the AR2412. You have 12, 8 will be used up for the HB, 2 FOH, 2 left..wedges, IEM? Do you own a AR84 or two? That could give you more.

    Good luck, wish I could be more helpful.

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array

    #34963
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by americanmadesound

    Joe:
    Good luck with this gig, you are a brave soul to take this on. HB is good, have used it extensively with GLD via MMO card (+ 24 track recording at the same time via ADAT outs)until I got hooked on the ME-1’s. I have 6 of those now…love them!

    I do not know if the Dante out will work with the HB system, I doubt
    it.

    Mixing for the HB system will be complex. You only get 6 channels other than the 2 stereo, so you have to be selective in what goes to what channel. With this Setup no one will get a “more ME!” knob, eveything will have to be grouped (vocs, drums, keys, guitars, computer PB, ?). Easiest way to do this is using auxes.
    They also want wedges? Hope you are geting paid well for this one.

    PS Generally the fan tail of the DA-88 are TRS jacks, so you will probably need converters from TRS Fe to XLR Fe.

    You could send the video guy the same stereo mix you will send to the HB unit (probably use 2 return jacks on the GLD console). However with this setup, you will soon run out of return jacks on the AR2412. You have 12, 8 will be used up for the HB, 2 FOH, 2 left..wedges, IEM? Do you own a AR84 or two? That could give you more.

    Good luck, wish I could be more helpful.

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array


    Thanks Rick.
    I ordered an AR84 this morning, but it will be a miracle if it arrives before Sunday, the day of the event. I may have to just tell them their ‘wish list’ will need to be cut down a bit. I’m familiar with the 6 channel limitations of the Hearback system. They tout it as 8 channel but as you mentioned, two channels are dedicated to the house mix. So all-in-all kind of funky for what I’m trying to do. Glad to hear you’re having success with the ME-1 system. I may have to look at investing in a few of those for the future.
    Thanks for your response.
    Joe

    Thanks,
    Joe

    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34964
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    I think I got it figured out. I called my buddy Clive and he suggested avoiding grouping the 22 or so instruments and vocals into the 6 feeds on the Hearback system. Instead he came up with the idea to send each person’s entire monitor mix to one Hearback channel. So in essence it would be no different than a custom monitor mix for each person, rendering the other five knobs on the Hearback controller obsolete. So musician #1 would get his mix off of Hearback channel 1 and would leave all the other 5 feeds set to zero. It becomes nothing more than a level control of their ears mix. They would communicate with me on any changes they need in their mix.

    Not the greatest arrangement but better the original plan. Maybe a set of those ME-1’s will be coming sooner rather than later!

    Thanks,
    Joe

    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34965
    Profile photo of Sound Doctor
    Sound Doctor
    Participant

    Joe:
    Yes, brilliant idea. There are 6 musicians requesting HB and drummer wants a line feed. So looks like 7 auxes + stereo (FOH?) + wedges??? Should work fine.
    Now how to get the auxes into the HB system..HB hub will probably need to be on stage, so that means you have 12 returns for HB aux’s, wedge and FOH. Should work.
    Most likely the feed to video will come from FOH GLD console as it will be closer to the video camera (maybe).
    Good luck and have fun!

    BTW I describe the ME-1 as an Aviom on steriods. Love them.

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array

    #34966
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by americanmadesound

    Joe:
    Yes, brilliant idea. There are 6 musicians requesting HB and drummer wants a line feed. So looks like 7 auxes + stereo (FOH?) + wedges??? Should work fine.
    Now how to get the auxes into the HB system..HB hub will probably need to be on stage, so that means you have 12 returns for HB aux’s, wedge and FOH. Should work.
    Most likely the feed to video will come from FOH GLD console as it will be closer to the video camera (maybe).
    Good luck and have fun!

    BTW I describe the ME-1 as an Aviom on steriods. Love them.

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array


    Rick, you’ve got me salivating for those ME-1’s. :-)
    I just got off the phone with the talent at this show and I ran the Hearback idea by him and he was completely in agreement. So I’m thinking we’ll be fine. Thanks so much for the vote of confidence. I was getting that sinking feeling earlier on. [B)]
    Thanks again!

    Thanks,
    Joe

    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34967
    Profile photo of Sound Doctor
    Sound Doctor
    Participant

    Hey Joe:
    What part of the country are you in?

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array

    #34968
    Profile photo of Sound Doctor
    Sound Doctor
    Participant

    OK, looked at your profile and you are in Solvang, CA. I was just down there recently, my cousins live in SB and I grew up in LA.
    If I had known you were there, would have come by to say hi.
    Cheers,

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array

    #34969
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by americanmadesound

    OK, looked at your profile and you are in Solvang, CA. I was just down there recently, my cousins live in SB and I grew up in LA.
    If I had known you were there, would have come by to say hi.
    Cheers,

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array


    Small world Rick. If you’re ever up this way again, please give me a shout. I’d love to talk GLD. I’m stoked with this mixer but it’d be great to talk with an experienced user.

    Presently, I’m routing audio to the rear of the GLD for main mix stereo feed to for the ‘camera guy’. I’m assuming I should use the Matrix 1 stereo, rather than Matrix 1 & 2 which is the default from the A&H template I loaded. Is that right?

    Thanks,
    Joe

    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34970
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by americanmadesound

    OK, looked at your profile and you are in Solvang, CA. I was just down there recently, my cousins live in SB and I grew up in LA.
    If I had known you were there, would have come by to say hi.
    Cheers,

    Rick
    GLD80, AR2412, AR84, MMO, GLD Remote, KR202 array


    Small world Rick. If you’re ever up this way again, please give me a shout. I’d love to talk GLD. I’m stoked with this mixer but it’d be great to talk with an experienced user.

    Presently, I’m routing audio to the rear of the GLD for main mix stereo feed to for the ‘camera guy’. I’m assuming I should use the Matrix 1 stereo, rather than Matrix 1 & 2 which is the default from the A&H template I loaded. Is that right?

    Thanks,
    Joe

    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34972
    Profile photo of Chris93
    Chris93
    Participant

    In addition to what you’re doing for the monitoring, I’d set it up with 2 stereo matrixes (sp?) and a stereo group.

    St Mtx 1: “FOH”

    Send your LR mix to this, then feed the PA from it. This will let you EQ for the PA / room without affecting the mix going to the camera.

    St Mtx 2: “Camera”

    Send your LR mix to this, and feed the camera from it. Gives you volume control, compression and EQ (if you want it) independant of anything going to the PA. Set up a group with audience mics and you can feed this into the matrix if desired. Unassign audience mic inputs and the group from the LR mix. :) Ext. In on the Mtx would work instead of the group but wouldn’t offer as much control.

    This might leave you a bit tight on mixes but it’s something to think about.

    Is this the size of gig where the FOH mix will be similar to what you’d want on a recording? What sort of connections will video be wanting? Some sort of isolation between your gear and his might be useful too.

    Chris

    #34974
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Chris93

    In addition to what you’re doing for the monitoring, I’d set it up with 2 stereo matrixes (sp?) and a stereo group.

    St Mtx 1: “FOH”

    Send your LR mix to this, then feed the PA from it. This will let you EQ for the PA / room without affecting the mix going to the camera.

    St Mtx 2: “Camera”

    Send your LR mix to this, and feed the camera from it. Gives you volume control, compression and EQ (if you want it) independant of anything going to the PA. Set up a group with audience mics and you can feed this into the matrix if desired. Unassign audience mic inputs and the group from the LR mix. :) Ext. In on the Mtx would work instead of the group but wouldn’t offer as much control.

    This might leave you a bit tight on mixes but it’s something to think about.

    Is this the size of gig where the FOH mix will be similar to what you’d want on a recording? What sort of connections will video be wanting? Some sort of isolation between your gear and his might be useful too.

    Chris


    Chris,
    That’s a really clever solution, but I don’t want to make a fuss over the camera requirements. I’m already going to be recording everything for them via the Dante card to Studio One DAW. So how ’bout I just send them a feed from the stereo matrix?

    If I read you right, your tip on the audience mics is so the audience can be recorded but not end up in the mains feed? That’s pretty cool, but again, I’m not concerned with recording the audience mics. I just want to put a bit of the room in the IEM’s mix.

    On your final couple of questions… This event is taking place at an old veteran’s hall. I mixed it last year (on my old desk) and it drew about 500 people. So yea, the FOH mix is very much like what I want to record.

    On the video needs, I have know idea. My contact just said, “He’ll have all the cables”. [:)]
    I’m clueless on the isolation you mentioned. What would be a typical scenario?

    Below are the channel assignments I’ve come up with. The main reason I’ve organized the inputs the way I have is because I have two stage boxes, 12 inputs each, that connect to my rack via multipin connectors. So it keeps things simpler if I route things in relation to the stage boxes. Please shoot it full of holes if there’s a better way without getting too complicated. ;-)

    Thanks very much for all the info. Your posts have been extremely helpful to me.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    Channel+List.jpg
    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34977
    Profile photo of Chris93
    Chris93
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Joe Hinkens

    Chris,
    That’s a really clever solution, but I don’t want to make a fuss over the camera requirements. I’m already going to be recording everything for them via the Dante card to Studio One DAW. So how ’bout I just send them a feed from the stereo matrix?

    On the video needs, I have know idea. My contact just said, “He’ll have all the cables”. [:)]
    I’m clueless on the isolation you mentioned. What would be a typical scenario?

    Thanks,
    Joe


    What I’d suggested with that routing was to give you a way to mix them into the camera matrix without getting them through FOH, the subgroup was only involved because inputs can’t be routed direct to a matrix.

    The live mix might sound better (more “live”) with a bit of audience and room sound in it. If you can easily add this later that would be preferable, rather than trying to judge it on headphones during the show. [:)]

    NT5’s are nice mics, quite wide polar pattern and fairly flat response so should be good for ambience. I haven’t used the 214’s.

    Something like this would let you isolate the camera from your GLD, but if he’s plugged into the same FOH power as you are you shouldn’t have any problems.

    http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/audio_solutions/product/dti/

    The only thing I’d change if I was massively nitpicky would be in the AR2412 destination table where there are two entries for the same thing “justin/josh wireless” and I’d say which was left and right. It’s really obvious anyway but I’d still do it. [:I] I’d put IEM Tx (1 or 2) too rather than “wireless”, if that’s what it is.

    Why is there only one tom mic? Input count limit?

    Computer audio is coming from FOH, this is what the band intend, yes?

    Either way, this looks very organised. [:D]

    It’s just occurred to me now and may not even be a good idea, but if you did a hilarious amount of compression on the room mics they would be very low in the mix during songs (due to gain reduction) but quite present for applause and audience comments.

    Very… slow… release… time…

    If you try that it’s at your own risk. [:p]

    Chris

    #34978
    Profile photo of Joe Hinkens
    Joe Hinkens
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Chris93

    quote:


    Originally posted by Joe Hinkens

    Chris,
    That’s a really clever solution, but I don’t want to make a fuss over the camera requirements. I’m already going to be recording everything for them via the Dante card to Studio One DAW. So how ’bout I just send them a feed from the stereo matrix?

    On the video needs, I have know idea. My contact just said, “He’ll have all the cables”. [:)]
    I’m clueless on the isolation you mentioned. What would be a typical scenario?

    Thanks,
    Joe


    What I’d suggested with that routing was to give you a way to mix them into the camera matrix without getting them through FOH, the subgroup was only involved because inputs can’t be routed direct to a matrix.

    The live mix might sound better (more “live”) with a bit of audience and room sound in it. If you can easily add this later that would be preferable, rather than trying to judge it on headphones during the show. [:)]


    That sounds smart. That’s the way we’ll do it. I’ll be dishing off the wav files to them and let them run with the as they wish.

    quote:


    NT5’s are nice mics, quite wide polar pattern and fairly flat response so should be good for ambience. I haven’t used the 214’s.


    I have a pair of NT5’s so I’ll bring those. I’ve never heard of the 214’s. You’ll notice I’m down for only one audience mic unless I connect the other one to the GLD surface. I’m out of inputs on the AR2412. There’s some uncertainty on the keyboard requirements to that may open up a couple more channels if he doesn’t bring his pads.

    quote:


    Something like this would let you isolate the camera from your GLD, but if he’s plugged into the same FOH power as you are you shouldn’t have any problems.

    http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/audio_solutions/product/dti/


    I just checked the isolator you suggested and there only $60 bucks so I’ll get one coming. Makes sense.

    quote:


    The only thing I’d change if I was massively nitpicky would be in the AR2412 destination table where there are two entries for the same thing “justin/josh wireless” and I’d say which was left and right. It’s really obvious anyway but I’d still do it. [:I] I’d put IEM Tx (1 or 2) too rather than “wireless”, if that’s what it is.


    That’s funny! I thought I was the only one that picky. [:)] I’m on it. Revisions in process…

    quote:


    Why is there only one tom mic? Input count limit?


    I asked the same thing. Turns out he’s only got one tom!

    quote:


    Computer audio is coming from FOH, this is what the band intend, yes?


    Yes, I think they plan on running some videos on a big screen that need audio.

    quote:


    Either way, this looks very organised. [:D]


    Thanks!

    quote:


    It’s just occurred to me now and may not even be a good idea, but if you did a hilarious amount of compression on the room mics they would be very low in the mix during songs (due to gain reduction) but quite present for applause and audience comments.

    Very… slow… release… time…

    If you try that it’s at your own risk. [:p]

    Chris


    Another super clever idea. I’d have never thought of that in a million years. I’m gonna give that a try just to see if I can make it work. Fun stuff.

    One other question…..
    As I understand it, there’s no way to get an email notification when a response is posted to a thread on this forum. So if not, how do you stay on top of threads, topics, etc?

    Many thanks,
    Joe

    Thanks,
    Joe

    GLD-80 w/M-DANTE, GLD-AR2412, MacBook Pro, Studio One 2

    #34979
    Profile photo of Chris93
    Chris93
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Joe Hinkens

    One other question…..
    As I understand it, there’s no way to get an email notification when a response is posted to a thread on this forum. So if not, how do you stay on top of threads, topics, etc?

    Many thanks,
    Joe


    I have a link to the forum in the chrome bookmarks bar just under the URL bar, no fancy system, I just check it every so often if I’m on the computer. [:)] The most recently posted-in thread goes to the top of the page too, I think, so that helps to see if somethings changed.

    Chris

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