idr 32 Noise Problem – 9khz noise from Mix Rack

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mike Mike 8 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #23712
    Profile photo of MikeGeez
    MikeGeez
    Participant

    Hey Guys.

    I have 3 rooms; using iLive T80/iDR-32 Mix rack. I have 1x Surface and 3x Mixracks and Mac Book Pro – iLive Editor v1.9

    In one of my rooms I’ve been noticing a very annoying 9khz signal on all of my mic channels when connected to the on-stage mixrack (snake). I have no clue what it is or could be, it’s NOT the cables nor the mics. What else could be the issue[?] I’m guessing it’s something digital[?] Reminds me of usb audio noise. Please chime in with any helpful thoughts on this. Im running multiple shows pretty often in here and It’s negatively affecting my mixes.

    Best,
    MikeGeez

    #33648
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    I think you need to supply more information about your set up/ room/s. Are the rooms in the same location and linked in any way? Also it’s not clear from your post what actual hardware is being affected – or is it different iLive hardware set ups in the same room on different dates that have the same issue?

    Cheers

    Richard Howey
    Audio Dynamite Ltd
    IDR48/IDR16/T112/R72/Mixpad,Tweak,
    Dual M-Dante/DVS, 17″MBP/Logic 9/Custom Mackie Control

    #33649
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by MikeGeez

    Hey Guys.

    I have 3 rooms; using iLive T80/iDR-32 Mix rack. I have 1x Surface and 3x Mixracks and Mac Book Pro – iLive Editor v1.9

    In one of my rooms I’ve been noticing a very annoying 9khz signal on all of my mic channels when connected to the on-stage mixrack (snake). I have no clue what it is or could be, it’s NOT the cables nor the mics. What else could be the issue[?] I’m guessing it’s something digital[?] Reminds me of usb audio noise. Please chime in with any helpful thoughts on this. Im running multiple shows pretty often in here and It’s negatively affecting my mixes.

    Best,
    MikeGeez


    Mike, have you switched/swapped idr, swapped ace or other cable ? what trouble shooting have you done to eliminate cabling from being an issue?

    Thx

    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

    #33656
    Profile photo of millst
    millst
    Participant

    This might be a dumb question, but do you have the signal generator turned on?

    Maybe turned on and sent to a mix, it could be generating a 9khz tone.

    #33658
    Profile photo of MikeGeez
    MikeGeez
    Participant

    First let me say. Thanks for the responses. This is a very new system for me, nor did I set it up so im figuring it out along the way.

    It’s actually a 10khz signal, I used a better RTA this time and I’ve removed this frequency on my graphic eq and it went away. I haven’t switched any of the mixracks because I have been having shows the past few days. Either way, im getting the same problem in every room. However, I am not having this issue with any other mic input on my mix rack. Im only having the issue on stage, this is why I believe it’s not the mic or the cable. (SM57/58 w Samson 25′ mic cable)

    I have swapped the CAT 5 cables a bunch of times, no dice.

    My rooms can be used separately or I can combine them all together. They are not linked to each other yet.

    #33659
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by MikeGeez

    First let me say. Thanks for the responses. This is a very new system for me, nor did I set it up so im figuring it out along the way.

    It’s actually a 10khz signal, I used a better RTA this time and I’ve removed this frequency on my graphic eq and it went away. I haven’t switched any of the mixracks because I have been having shows the past few days. Either way, im getting the same problem in every room. However, I am not having this issue with any other mic input on my mix rack. Im only having the issue on stage, this is why I believe it’s not the mic or the cable. (SM57/58 w Samson 25′ mic cable)

    I have swapped the CAT 5 cables a bunch of times, no dice.

    My rooms can be used separately or I can combine them all together. They are not linked to each other yet.


    How is all this connected together ?? how is the stage mixrack connected to the foh mixrack? what is “my mix rack”that is not giving you the problem? is the (10Khz) cyclical like a tone or like a feedback ? for ease of troubleshooting you need to start from what works (i.e. only FOH) towards the problem….(add stage rack and see from there) at first the problem was in one of your rooms and now it’s in all the rooms….??? what’s the common denominator for all the room aside from the operator? when you EQ’d the 10K, where did you do this from? what mix ? like suggested before is it possible you have the signal generator assigned to your stage mix? if your FOH mix is clean and you are sharing inputs (1 mic to 2 different mixrack sockets for an FOH/mon setup)) then the problem must be at the stage mix….not at the mixrack! You also mention all your inputs then say you believe it’s not the cable or the mic?? very confusing information?? Make the setup as simple as you can clearly walk your way thru and then add elements until you get to the problem and find what’s wrong…..again how are the foh and the stage connected? is it one rack in a mon/foh set up or is it some other type of installation? to best help you we need a clearer description than what you’ve given us…..

    hope that helps
    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

    #33660
    Profile photo of MikeGeez
    MikeGeez
    Participant

    quote:


    How is all this connected together ??


    All rooms are connected via a Crestron system. However the A/V techs do not actually know how to operate anything they’ve installed so basically I have to figure it out and troubleshoot on my own without their help.

    quote:


    how is the stage mixrack connected to the foh mixrack?


    FOH mixrack is connected to the Stage via a snake. SO, sorry for misinformation. This is just a snake not a second mixrack on the stage.

    quote:


    what is “my mix rack”that is not giving you the problem?


    This is the FOH iDR32 Mixrack

    quote:


    is the (10Khz) cyclical like a tone or like a feedback ?


    Tone.

    quote:


    for ease of troubleshooting you need to start from what works (i.e. only FOH) towards the problem….(add stage rack and see from there)


    I’ve done this already, however, I have to use the stage snake because FOH position is inside a booth (another design flaw)

    quote:


    at first the problem was in one of your rooms and now it’s in all the rooms….???


    Yes. After noticing the issue I checked all other rooms and found the same issue.

    quote:


    what’s the common denominator for all the room aside from the operator?


    All rooms have the same exact setups.

    quote:


    when you EQ’d the 10K, where did you do this from? what mix ?


    From the MAIN MIX GEQ

    quote:


    like suggested before is it possible you have the signal generator assigned to your stage mix?


    I can double check. If a sig gen is assigned to my mix, wouldn’t I be able to hear the tone even from FOH mixrack?

    quote:


    if your FOH mix is clean and you are sharing inputs (1 mic to 2 different mixrack sockets for an FOH/mon setup)) then the problem must be at the stage mix….not at the mixrack!


    Yes. I guess this is what Im saying. I believe this 10khz signal is coming from the “snake”

    quote:


    You also mention all your inputs then say you believe it’s not the cable or the mic?? very confusing information??


    I have tried all 32 inputs on the snake and on the mixrack, using the same exact mic (sm57) and cable (25′ xlr). Im only getting the tone on the snake?

    quote:


    Make the setup as simple as you can clearly walk your way thru and then add elements until you get to the problem and find what’s wrong…..again how are the foh and the stage connected? is it one rack in a mon/foh set up or is it some other type of installation? to best help you we need a clearer description than what you’ve given us…..


    There is a snake installed on the stage. That is how FOH is connected. I believe the snake is the problem, but I cant bypass it due to construction. Im just trying to figure out why I am getting this tone and how can I stop it.

    btw. Thanks Ray very helpful

    iLive-T80/iDR32/Tweak/Editor/ 15″MBP/

    #33661
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by MikeGeez

    There is a snake installed on the stage. That is how FOH is connected. I believe the snake is the problem, but I cant bypass it due to construction. Im just trying to figure out why I am getting this tone and how can I stop it.

    btw. Thanks Ray very helpful

    iLive-T80/iDR32/Tweak/Editor/ 15″MBP/


    thanks for the detailed reply….we can indeed assume it is caused by the stage snake, somehow!!

    Ok, for clarification, when nothing is patched in the snake and the snake is connected to the mixrack (nothing at the other end) ..you have the tone? have you tried troubleshooting just the snake with one of those or similar Qbox http://www.fullcompass.com/product/284629.html I’m suspecting the Crestrons have something to do with this …..unfortunately at this point this might be beyond the scope of this forum…..but, how does the crestron connect the systems ? cat5? the ones I’ve seen on the net are Sonnex multiroom systems : like these http://www.crestron.com/products/sonnex_digital_audio_distribution/products.asp….is this what your rooms have ? in the meantime could you not (I know you are in a booth but you might not want to mix in there!!), bypass the stage snakes by setting your mixracks directly on the stage and running a Cat 5 ace to FOH if you use the surface or just a network cable anywhere for your editor at least until you sort this out ??

    Perhaps a mail to Crestron support would be in order…

    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

    #33663
    Profile photo of MikeGeez
    MikeGeez
    Participant

    I will checked for tone when nothing is connected when I arrive later today.

    I do not have a Qbox, will invest soon. This will come in very handy.

    Crestron is not in between my snake and mix rack. It is only used to connect all mixracks to the PA’s (Bar, Lobby etc) I can hear this tone directly from the headphone out on the mixrack. So i doubt crestron would be the issue. The connection to crestron is also CAT5 using http://www.rane.com/rpm88.html

    I cannot bypass the snake, because the floor plan doesn’t allow me to mix or setup in any other position for most applications. The idea is to take the iPad into the house or take the laptop down. Besides, Im afraid that’ll create another issue of the venue considering the “bandaid” as the solution to the problem.

    I figured, this topic would end up beyond this forum but it was worth a try and still very helpful. This is a brand new space with poor design for audio. Overall I have it sounding pretty good in here and the tone is very faint for the untrained ear. but it’s KILLING me!

    Thanks

    Mike

    iLive-T80/iDR32/Tweak/Editor/15″MBP/

    #33669
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by MikeGeez

    I will checked for tone when nothing is connected when I arrive later today.

    I do not have a Qbox, will invest soon. This will come in very handy.

    Crestron is not in between my snake and mix rack. It is only used to connect all mixracks to the PA’s (Bar, Lobby etc) I can hear this tone directly from the headphone out on the mixrack. So i doubt crestron would be the issue.
    Thanks

    Mike

    iLive-T80/iDR32/Tweak/Editor/15″MBP/


    I was not hinting the crestron was connecting the snake and idr .I was trying to get a simple system set up and eliminate possible causes as you troubleshoot, leaving the crestron or any other device patched in while you’re looking for the fault defeats your efforts………start with a basic setup, one idr and nothing else = no tone! ok move on. just adding the ouput connections to the crestron, is there a tone? then add something else, again is there a tone…..with everything patched in it’s going to be difficult for you to determine where this noise is coming from…..if you hear the tone from the headphone of the idr and want to eiliminate the idr as the defective cause there has to be nothing else plugged into it, no inputs no outputs! then add components until you are sure where the problem is…for every line in the snake to carry the tone is rather unusual and weird…..there has to be something you/we have overlooked……

    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

    #33673
    Profile photo of MikeGeez
    MikeGeez
    Participant

    Im not getting tone until I connect a mic to the snake. At this point, I think I’ve convinced myself there is some sort of interference between the snake and the mixrack. I need to know what could be causing a 10khz tone. Could it be wires crossing the audio cables? Cheap cables? Converters? Distance? Im gonna take another stab at it tmr. This convo maybe needs to move to another forum.

    iLive-T80/iDR32/Tweak/Editor/15″MBP/

    #33696
    Profile photo of sraymond
    sraymond
    Participant

    Mike,

    If you have access to or could borrow a small portable mixer and plug a few inputs and mics in and don’t get tone that may indicate some sort of interaction between the mixrack and other gear. Similar to using a Q-box.

    quote:


    Originally posted by MikeGeez

    Im not getting tone until I connect a mic to the snake. At this point, I think I’ve convinced myself there is some sort of interference between the snake and the mixrack. I need to know what could be causing a 10khz tone. Could it be wires crossing the audio cables? Cheap cables? Converters? Distance? Im gonna take another stab at it tmr. This convo maybe needs to move to another forum.

    iLive-T80/iDR32/Tweak/Editor/15″MBP/


    Scott

    iDR 32
    iDR D-Out
    MMO
    Lenova T61, M90, iPad2

    #33717
    Profile photo of Mike
    Mike
    Participant

    Hi everyone! I had yesterday a similar tone in the 8-10KHz range while copying a show for backup to the usb stick. The copy sequence interrupted with “connection to mixrack failed” twice. After just “retry” i no luck so I rebooted the surface only. Tone was gone and copying the show to the usb was successful. No tone before or after. t80/idr32/mbp with Editor 1.9 to surface network/SW 1.9. never had this issue earlier.

    Mike

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