Please add a useful/switchable lowcut!

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of vilddyr vilddyr 8 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #23579
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    Hi A&H.

    LOve your desk, new 1.9 software is great. BUT I cant believe that you have not made the lowcut a bit more useful. It sounds fine, but to be honest the 6db/oct (right?) simply is not efficient enough for Live sound. Please, please, please give us the option of at least an 18db/oct and better yet an option of anywhere from 6-48db/oct. I have been hoping for this to appear in an update since I first got the desk, but no dice so far. It really is absolutely crucial to making this desk efficient and quick to work on – right now I have to do all lowcuts in waves multirack, to get a proper welldefined bottom-end.

    Other than that, keep up the good work :)

    regards, Tor

    #32971
    Profile photo of millst
    millst
    Participant

    really?
    I find the high pass section particularly musical on the i-Live.
    I’ve worked on desks with a more aggressive high pass section and its harder to get a smoother roll-off.

    For example if you have a bass with too much low information you can just dial in a bit of high pass without it chopping off the entire note.

    #32976
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    Musical is not good enough for live sound. I want efficient :) Playing in front of thousands of people on huge PA systems requires a tight and clean bottom end, and the 6db/oct lowcut simply does not clear up the low end well enough for an ultra transparent mix, which you need for demanding venues and rooms. You should take a look at the Avid desks. The venue desk has an absolutely perfect lowcut for live sound! Preserving the fundamentals, getting rid of the messy stuff :)

    A steep filter certainly messes with the phase, but that not necessarily a bad thing. Low cutting a kick og bass, you want that “hump” that phaseshift gives you. It’s part of what we are used to and like to hear from good filters.

    #32978
    Profile photo of Detonator
    Detonator
    Participant

    The high pass is 12 db/octave. You can try using the low eq band with a tight Q in conjunction with the high pass, I’ve seen it done with acceptable results to the operator, I haven’t found the need myself.

    If you want to eliminate low frequency “gak”, use an aux-fed sub arrangement, this will elimimate any undesireds inputs from the subs completely.

    Tim Tyler
    Detonator Sound
    Richmond, Va USA
    T112/48 R72/32 laptop iPad Dir-815 Dante

    #32983
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    Not looking for workarounds, looking for solutions :)

    #32987
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by vilddyr
    simply is not efficient enough for Live sound.


    I’m gonna take some pretty major issue with this, unless you are mixing extremely heavy rock or death metal a 12db should be plenty fine.

    Now, I too would like a 18-24 option, I just think ‘need’ is a strong word here.

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #33004
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    That is just plain and simply not correct.

    The demand for a steeper lowcut has nothing to do with genres, it has to do with how you mix. I do mixes that sound like a record, not mixes that does the job. In order to do that in a live situation, you need a much more clear, processed and well-defined bottom end, since you are not mixing for a home stereo. I have no problem with 6 or 12db LPF, but they belong in my studio :) Yamaha LS9 has the same old-school lowcut, that forces you to use the lowest parametric band to clear things up properly.

    Weird that people seem offended by this. I just want to make a good desk great, and this along with a better limiter is what’s missing. And pro looking T surfaces – I dont mind the workflow on the surfaces, but I certainly do understand why people are skeptic, it feels like you’re handling a fisher-price console.

    #33006
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by vilddyr

    That is just plain and simply not correct.

    The demand for a steeper lowcut has nothing to do with genres, it has to do with how you mix. I do mixes that sound like a record, not mixes that does the job. In order to do that in a live situation, you need a much more clear, processed and well-defined bottom end, since you are not mixing for a home stereo. I have no problem with 6 or 12db LPF, but they belong in my studio :) Yamaha LS9 has the same old-school lowcut, that forces you to use the lowest parametric band to clear things up properly.

    Weird that people seem offended by this. I just want to make a good desk great, and this along with a better limiter is what’s missing. And pro looking T surfaces – I dont mind the workflow on the surfaces, but I certainly do understand why people are skeptic, it feels like you’re handling a fisher-price console.


    I very much agree that it’d be a nice feature, it just sounds a but like people who insist you “need” dynamic eq and multiband compression on every channel. Maybe you do though, it’s certainly a feature I’d make use of if it existed.

    To your last comment… Yeah I guess? The T wasn’t designed for tour and as such doesn’t need the same bombproof construction of the modular, or an m7.

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #33022
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    I Think these claims has roots in the fact that livesound today are just up to higher standards. All shows I watch sound much better than 15 years ago, and digital desks has helped us bring some things from the studio into the live world – more processing and more well balanced and even mixes. It’s great!!

    But it also means that people need more and more tools to shape their sound, and this is why we see people “needing” dynamic EQ. And to be fair the 901 has been here for ages, so I don’t think it’s silly to ask for. But the fact that it is now available in the cheap ilive system is pretty impressive. I love this system, but it has its good and bad sides. I would have loved to see a better compressor and preamp, though they are certainly as good as most other desks. But when you’ve handled a Vi6 or any Vi desk you hear those to things instantly. Brilliant preamp and absolutely fantastic compressor.

    And yeah, I had hoped for something a little more sturdy and solid feeling for the money I paid for the R72. I’m careful with my gear though :)

    #33024
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by vilddyr

    I Think these claims has roots in the fact that livesound today are just up to higher standards. All shows I watch sound much better than 15 years ago, and digital desks has helped us bring some things from the studio into the live world – more processing and more well balanced and even mixes. It’s great!!

    But it also means that people need more and more tools to shape their sound, and this is why we see people “needing” dynamic EQ. And to be fair the 901 has been here for ages, so I don’t think it’s silly to ask for. But the fact that it is now available in the cheap ilive system is pretty impressive. I love this system, but it has its good and bad sides. I would have loved to see a better compressor and preamp, though they are certainly as good as most other desks. But when you’ve handled a Vi6 or any Vi desk you hear those to things instantly. Brilliant preamp and absolutely fantastic compressor.

    And yeah, I had hoped for something a little more sturdy and solid feeling for the money I paid for the R72. I’m careful with my gear though :)


    I’m very surprised you mentioned the preamps, I’ve found the sonic quality of them superior to anything Yamaha offers, or even the Venue system. Not a huge fan of the Vi workflow, or layout, so I stay away from them for the most part.

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #33027
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    Nono, I’m not comparing the pre’s to yamahas. Wow, that would be quite the insult! The preamps are good, no doubt. They remind me of the DigiCo desks, a tad mellow sounding, but good. But the Midas Pro, and Vi desks are just in a different league concerning the pre’s.

    The beautiful thing about the Vi desks, is that everything on them sounds fantastic. Pres, Filters, EQ, Gate, Comp, Deesser, and gorgeus reverbs, so you get the mix right faster in my experience. To be fair the desk is many times the price of the iLive, so no competition in bang for the buck. The workflow is probably the easiest out there, I have had lots of engineers flying within minutes, so I’m quite surprised you feel that way :)

    #33031
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by vilddyr
    The workflow is probably the easiest out there, I have had lots of engineers flying within minutes, so I’m quite surprised you feel that way :)


    I guess I should clarify, I find it difficult to get to what I need to. It’s not the logical menu structure of a Yamaha, but its not the same direct-access style of an iLive or larger Midas frame. Personally I find the Venue Profile one of the best physically laid out desk, but not flexible enough in terms of how one uses it, and from a software perspective. I love the lack of dedicated faders on the iLive.
    I think the SD5 is still one of my favorite consoles, but again that’s way out of the price range of comparison.

    just as a thought experiment, I’d love to see what a $140k Allen and Heath digital would look like :D

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #33032
    Profile photo of mumu
    mumu
    Participant

    i like the idea of the requested feature, to have it less complicated (one more xtra switch on every channel)how bout
    a overall setting – switch the desk either to “soft” or “hard” filter.

    i do most of the time LR sub setups ,much better sub conrol,we are a small company (biggest events 5000 people), small nexo (geo s8 15 cabs each side) with the cd 18 and its fantastic (but you have to rig the small basses cd 12).

    cheers
    dave

    allways latest firm and software
    iLive-144/t-80/idr-10 /idr-48/dante/pl-6/eyepad 1/belkin router/

    #33033
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    But the majority of places you go, its not possible to do a LR Sub setup, when you use the desk for touring, and not as part of a complete production. But yes, it works quite well in places with seperate subs and ultra sub for instance.

    I think it would be great to just have an extra box that you could switch between 6, 12, 18, 24, and 48db/oct. Problem solved. It certainly cant be a DSP problem :)

    I like the digico desks, but they have a learning curve thats a little more challenging than the rest I think, but are excellent for a tour production!

    #33043
    Profile photo of mumu
    mumu
    Participant

    digico is nice but way too heavy….reminds me of my old neve -industrial gear[;)]

    quote:


    Originally posted by vilddyr

    But the majority of places you go, its not possible to do a LR Sub setup, when you use the desk for touring, and not as part of a complete production. But yes, it works quite well in places with seperate subs and ultra sub for instance.

    I think it would be great to just have an extra box that you could switch between 6, 12, 18, 24, and 48db/oct. Problem solved. It certainly cant be a DSP problem :)

    I like the digico desks, but they have a learning curve thats a little more challenging than the rest I think, but are excellent for a tour production!


    cheers
    dave

    allways latest firm and software
    iLive-144/t-80/idr-10 /idr-48/dante/pl-6/eyepad 1/belkin router/

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