So happy with 1.9!

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of vilddyr vilddyr 8 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #23546
    Profile photo of guyharris
    guyharris
    Participant

    I know I’m a little late with this, but it’s the first time we’ve been able to use time off the road to experiment with 1.9, and we love it!

    In particular, the multiband compression makes a very decent mastering tool that has brought depth and shine to our FoH signal. I didn’t expect that having control over the very low frequencies through the new EQ would make such a difference, but it has: not in boosting, but in cutting out the very lowest frequencies on the drum mix, which (I think) sends a more useful signal to the bass amps, by not trying to have the speakers move at 20Hz. Finally, the ability to change the stereo imaging has also made quite a difference to the kind of signals we feed in from Mainstage through MADI. This avoids the need for processing on the MacPro, which tends to clog up the polyphony.

    Well done, A&H!

    http://www.pianodome.nl
    3D PianoShow!

    #32795
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by guyharris

    I didn’t expect that having control over the very low frequencies through the new EQ would make such a difference, but it has: not in boosting, but in cutting out the very lowest frequencies on the drum mix, which (I think) sends a more useful signal to the bass amps, by not trying to have the speakers move at 20Hz.


    While I’m glad you like the new firmware like I do, I must say this particular thing raises some questions.
    1. Why didn’t you just use the parametric EQs highpass on the drum group? Just set the lowest EQ band to locut/highpass, set it to the lowest frequency you want in that group and be done? this would have worked for a long long time. Cutting a wider range of adjacent frequencies (like 20, 25 and 31Hz) with a GEQ introduces by far heavier phase distortions than using the cut of the PEQs.
    2. Why do your speakers move at all at 20Hz? Aren’t you using a highpass in the digital speaker management for your PA to protect it from mechanical stress? If not, you are wasting a lot of energy into frequency ranges that probably aren’t reproduceable by your PA.

    #32796
    Profile photo of kentlowt
    kentlowt
    Participant

    I like how the multi bands sound on vocals. Much better than any of the compressors on the channel strip.

    112T/IDR48/IDR16

    #32842
    Profile photo of guyharris
    guyharris
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jens Droessler

    quote:


    Originally posted by guyharris

    I didn’t expect that having control over the very low frequencies through the new EQ would make such a difference, but it has: not in boosting, but in cutting out the very lowest frequencies on the drum mix, which (I think) sends a more useful signal to the bass amps, by not trying to have the speakers move at 20Hz.


    While I’m glad you like the new firmware like I do, I must say this particular thing raises some questions.
    1. Why didn’t you just use the parametric EQs highpass on the drum group? Just set the lowest EQ band to locut/highpass, set it to the lowest frequency you want in that group and be done? this would have worked for a long long time. Cutting a wider range of adjacent frequencies (like 20, 25 and 31Hz) with a GEQ introduces by far heavier phase distortions than using the cut of the PEQs.
    2. Why do your speakers move at all at 20Hz? Aren’t you using a highpass in the digital speaker management for your PA to protect it from mechanical stress? If not, you are wasting a lot of energy into frequency ranges that probably aren’t reproduceable by your PA.


    Yes, you’re absolutely right, Jens. I did previously use a HPF on the bass signals, but it didn’t seem to give as ‘accurate’ a bass signal as using the new control possibilities. I’m sure there’s a reason for that, but not being as techie as some others, I don’t know why, but I’m happy with the result!

    The speakers indeed do not move at 20Hz!, and we’re actually talking about the same thing: the waste of energy of TRYING to get the speakers to produce impossibly low frequencies. I still have a long way to go in finding out how best to use the system to its fullest capacity: in my defence, it’s the first time in the 2.5 years since we got iLive that I’ve had real ‘down time’ in the workshop, with the full system, to experiment, test, measure, etc., without the stress of having to get stuff re-packed for the next gig. I’m first and foremost a musician and concerned with the playability of the system, so I tend to have a different take on the technical side than both ‘sound engineers’ and ‘musicians’: I argue equally with both! ;-) What I like about the iLive system, and the improvements, as compared to the Yamaha stuff we used before, is that there seems to be an easier link between theory and practice: in other words, usability is better.

    http://www.pianodome.nl
    3D PianoShow!

    #32845
    Profile photo of tendersound
    tendersound
    Participant

    Cutting those two or three lowest freqs on the drum bus like I think you are saying only brings those freq down as much as twelve dB. Why not use a highpass filter on your drum channels and fix it at the source. I have highpassed my kick as high as 100hz sometime.

    Hmm..it must be broke!

    #32847
    Profile photo of guyharris
    guyharris
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by tendersound

    Cutting those two or three lowest freqs on the drum bus like I think you are saying only brings those freq down as much as twelve dB. Why not use a highpass filter on your drum channels and fix it at the source. I have highpassed my kick as high as 100hz sometime.

    Hmm..it must be broke!


    Again: you’re right, but I am guessing that the total lack of very low frequencies using a HPF is making a sound I found unattractive.

    100Hz HPF for a kick drum?!?!?!?! What kind of music were you mixing?! :-)

    http://www.pianodome.nl
    3D PianoShow!

    #32850
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    Total lack of low frequencies?? Thats not what the low cut does. The low cut on the iLive is not very steep, certainly not more than 24dB/octave, maybe less, I find it too soft. Or you could just use the bell on the lowest EQ band.

    Sounds a little like you’re mixing with your eyes.

    #32852
    Profile photo of guyharris
    guyharris
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by vilddyr

    Total lack of low frequencies?? Thats not what the low cut does. The low cut on the iLive is not very steep, certainly not more than 24dB/octave, maybe less, I find it too soft. Or you could just use the bell on the lowest EQ band.

    Sounds a little like you’re mixing with your eyes.


    Thanks so much. :-/

    http://www.pianodome.nl
    3D PianoShow!

    #32854
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    That’s not an insult, if thats how you take it. Everyone does this in various ways to some extent. But a graphic EQ really introduces some serious phase shifting, so often you get a very unpredictable system, when working the graphics hard. You could do the same thing with a very steep parametric notch.

    Usually it is better to do as much on the parametrics as possible, and only adress specific room problems on the graphic, since you take out energy from the entire sound. It is of course a personal preference to some extent, but it is a fact the way graphics behave unfortunately :)

    #32893
    Profile photo of guyharris
    guyharris
    Participant

    Well, it’s not particularly diplomatically put! :-)

    I understand what you mean: I wouldn’t be the first person to admit to changing an EQ or other some such adjustment, to think that I’ve heard the change, only to realise that the effect or whatever is bypassed … :-)

    I tend to use very little on GEQ for the room itself, because we mainly use digital instruments, and it’s rare that I need do more than adjust the SUB level, or perhaps the crossover frequencies.

    Without a very complex analysis of what’s actually going on with the phase shifting, I guess I’ll just have to trust my MkI ears … With my MkI eyes as a help … ;-)

    http://www.pianodome.nl
    3D PianoShow!

    #32913
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    I think you misunderstood… What I meant was, that sometimes your EQ graph can look absolutely silly, and you start thinking how can this be good… And you start relying a little too much on the EQ gui, and too little on the ears. All of us do this to some extend with all this new digital technology that tells us way too much about how the EQ looks.

    Low cut can look very harsh when looking at the screen, but my experience with the iLive, is that you can easily have a 70hz lowcut, and still have plenty of bottom end. The lowcut is not very “efficient”.

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