Discounts on MixApp?

Forums Forums iLive Forums Archived iLive Discussions Discounts on MixApp?

This topic contains 52 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Musikhof Musikhof 8 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 53 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #32820
    Profile photo of clarocque
    clarocque
    Participant

    Well I would rather see it become free so I don’t have to keep buying it for all my engineers’s iPads to come. I wouldn’t expect a refund for my previous purchase….

    #32827
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    I tend to agree with what was written by shuahughes.

    I also consider myself as a huge promotor for A&H iLive.
    If iLive, just like GLD, can keep up with the market, then I’ll definitely continue to support the platform by all means!

    The architecture is still visionary, with the mixer in the stageblock and only control going over the wire!

    Especially if this is paired with apps on par with the competition, and hopefully someday a renewed scene management.

    I honestly think that A&H could still hugely benefit from crowdsourcing. Why not allow external developers to help with a new editor UI?

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #32858
    Profile photo of millst
    millst
    Participant

    > Will the iPad app be free in the future to match GLD’s free app?

    You guys are not getting it!!!

    Price = Value = Price
    I think you need to go back to school to learn economics.

    The iPad app for the GLD can be free as it will not impact console sales at all.

    If you own a GLD and you get the iPad app, then it doesn’t reduce future sales for A&H because you still have to take the GLD to the gig. It increases the value of the GLD but it doesn’t sacrifice sales.

    BUT…..

    If you own an IDR32 rack, then you might decide you don’t need an iLive surface for most of your gigs and you can get away just using the Laptop and an iPad or two and renting a surface if you need it. That option makes the iPad app EXTREMELY valuable as it potentially saves you many thousands of dollars.
    You don’t get that same value with the GLD, the Roland, the , LS9, PM5d or just about every single digital mixer out there because you always need to buy a box with faders on it with those systems OR the mixer is the box with faders on it. That is a fundamental difference with the iLive that makes it so exceedingly awesome.

    The iLive is one of the few systems on the market where not buying a surface is a genuine option.

    That means, unlike all those competing systems, the MixPad app has to be commercially viable as a standalone product. Its not a giveaway and never will be unless A&H were mad. Consider yourself lucky that the Laptop software is free!!!

    Think of it from A&H’s point of view.
    If the iPad software was free, it would reduce the revenue they make from surface sales. Why on earth would they spend loads of money building a product that is going to make their business less profitable? The solution is to put a high price on the iPad software to recover the development cost and also make the surfaces look more attractive.

    Its not rocket science guys its economics 101.
    Sorry for the ranting today, but the forum seems to be filled with particularly stupid posts.

    #32884
    Profile photo of shuahughes
    shuahughes
    Participant

    I get your point MillSt, but you have missed mine.

    The iPad app being free only sacrifices surface sales if you have that size budget to begin with.
    I’m talking from the perspective of someone buying multiple small sub 10K systems.
    I can get the Roland M200i so I have surface and iPad.
    Or a PreSonus Studio Live but have to have a Laptop connected all the time…yuck
    Or an X32, or an analogue system etc….

    An iDR16 or iDR32 with Laptop setup and iPad control is an amazing solution.
    It would compare much more favourably if the iPad app were cheaper and had these extra features.

    A&H may loose a few surface sales, but my experience says those who want a surface still want a surface. The iPad or Laptop only market is different.
    Maybe some surface owners do a small gig here and there without the surface, but they will still own one.

    By not having the app free or cheaper, and adding the features I listed above, A&H are missing out on what I believe could be a big market. A much more significant chunk then the few potential surface sales missed. Apple could have worried about iPad sales eating into their laptop sales, but instead they made an amazing iPad product which way more then offset the decrease in Laptops sold!

    You keep saying you get what you pay for.
    That’s true, but I don’t believe you understand what my market segment is looking for.
    A&H have the opportunity to take on the small market head on and thrash the opposition if only they would sieze the moment.

    #32886
    Profile photo of Karl
    Karl
    Participant

    If that’s the case then some of these new big touchscreen all in one PC’s could take away some surface sales

    but wouldn’t it be better to up idr sales by giving away the app also some manufactures bringing out mini budget consoles where the ipad is the control surface wouldnt these small acts be better off with an idr16 and a free ipad app

    Karl

    #32888
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by shuahughes

    I get your point MillSt, but you have missed mine.


    Completely agree again.

    iDR is visionary unlike any other console system but that fact is completely unknown to the market!

    Let a fixed iDR-32 or iDR-24 without a surface be a really really good alternative in the sub 4000€ market. iDR’s are not overpriced I think, but companies on a budget should at least consider these consoles!

    Provide a GLD-like surface for a sub-2700€ price on par with… yes X32! (I’m sorry if I name this one sometimes, but it’s bound to become a standard , whether we want this or not.)
    That’s a challenge maybe but to be honest, explaining everybody that a thing that even doesn’t process any sound but just controls the mixer has to cost three times as much as a lowcost mixer with the sound processing builtin is even a bigger challenge. Large companies will like to have more than one controller anyway.

    Adapt the firmware so at least two controllers can be used simultaneous to accomodate FOH-Monitor setups with one iDR. This is one of the amaaaaaaazing strenghts of the series!! This is one of the key differentiators!

    Provide the tools in the firmware to make the best use of this.

    Market the thing as waaaay better quality than any other console, and certainly waaaaaaay more flexible!! Which it is!
    I’ve never ever seen or heard this in the A&H marketing, which is a shame. I think all users agree on the flexibility. For some of us, it’s even the main reason why we ever invested in iLive in the first place.

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #32890
    Profile photo of clarocque
    clarocque
    Participant

    +1

    quote:


    Adapt the firmware so at least two controllers can be used simultaneous to accomodate FOH-Monitor setups with one iDR.


    T112, R72, iDR48 w/M-DANTE (2), PL10, MixPad, Editor
    MacBook Pro, Mac Mini
    Lion/Logic Pro/PT10
    All latest versions/firmware

    #32902
    Profile photo of millst
    millst
    Participant

    >The iPad app being free only sacrifices surface sales if you have that size budget to begin with.

    I don’t agree, this is the same as saying the rack is too expensive.

    Lets use some round numbers, but lets say..
    If a Rack costs $2900 and the iPad software costs $100 then a combo costs $3000, then what you are saying is the rack is overpriced by $100 and should really be priced at $2900 because the mixpad software is not worth anything.

    If the rack cost $3100 and came with a free iPad license, you would still buy it. In the scheme of things, its nothing. Its just your perception of value is being distorted by other manufacturers who offer free software. What they are saying is that by offering free software, their software is worth nothing and has no value.

    The iLive is so far and away advanced over the other systems you mention that it can’t even be compared. The minuscule cost of the iPad software relative to the rack cost and your total investment in sound equipment in comparison with the competitive products is nothing.

    If people want to buy x32’s and rolands, by all means go for it but I suspect these are people who are being ‘sold’ a product as opposed to people who are making good decisions themselves.

    There are far more considerations in console purchase than price, one major thing is upgrade path. The Roland and X32 don’t really have scalability and upgrade paths while the iLives do. If you don’t need an upgrade path thats fine, but if you do, its worth paying a little more for.

    The A&H guys aren’t stupid, pricing is well thought out, competitive and relative and has incentives for moving up the upgrade path.
    If you price something cheap, then it implies it is lower quality.

    I would be pretty upset if my considerable investment in consoles was compared to the X32 and roland line and marketed to the same people that buy those systems. I don’t think A&H are in the volume consumer MI market. They are in the next tier up marketing quality, reliability and professionalism in the mid to high end market.

    The other consideration is the iLive is fairly complex and high end beast. I’m not sure A&H would want the support overhead of dealing with a whole pile of MI users who do something stupid and make mistakes setting up their systems resulting in a poor perception of the product. There have been quite a few posts over the last few weeks by users who clearly have no idea what they are doing and probably should not have been sold an iLive. Maybe they would have been better off with a roland or X32 that has less complexity and flexibility and less possibility of doing something stupid.

    I’m not trying to justify being ripped off, but I don’t feel ripped off. The prices are very reasonable for the product quality and support being offered. As soon as you get into discounting, you alter the entire perception of your products.

    A good example is Samsung, they used to be known as a low cost, low quality manufacturer. Then they started improving quality putting their prices up and it changed the whole perception of the brand.
    Price says a lot about a brand.

    #32903
    Profile photo of shuahughes
    shuahughes
    Participant

    You are assuming only one iPad license is required.

    I agree that it depends on wether A&H want to be in the smaller market.

    #32905
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by millst

    Lets use some round numbers, but lets say..
    If a Rack costs $2900 and the iPad software costs $100 then a combo costs $3000, then what you are saying is the rack is overpriced by $100 and should really be priced at $2900 because the mixpad software is not worth anything.


    Mmm, strange reasoning. I’d propose the opposite. Raising the price of the MixRack (which, if the total price level reflects value, is underpriced actually) and combining that with a near-zero cost app could actually raise sales.

    Why? Not because there’s no value in the app, on the contrary. Because, you want your guest engineers to be able to also use the app, without starting to rent out iPads alongside your iLive gear. And yes, because dumb customers should be ‘sold’ iLive. If those dumb customers see a non-free app, then dumb customers are indeed scared away, which is a pity. So, yes, you have to fool dumb customers by including the app’s price or a multitude of that in the MixRack’s price :-)

    And poor guest engineers? They will only invest in such an app if iLive were the standard console. Unfortunately, that ‘s not the case at this moment.

    On the other hand. A&H has been quite kind with all of us, to give us a multiband and dynamic EQ for free. Never expected that…

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #32919
    Profile photo of ceejay
    ceejay
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by millst

    >

    I’m not trying to justify being ripped off, but I don’t feel ripped off. The prices are very reasonable for the product quality and support being offered. As soon as you get into discounting, you alter the entire perception of your products.


    +1.

    Here in the states, we are already at that point and there is discounting in the supply chain.

    http://www.americanmusicandsound.com/en/pages/promos/iLiveGrandSlam.html

    I don’t feel ripped off, but this alters my perception “a little” with that particular marketing campaign and offer rebate dollars to drive sales growth. I think, offering an iPad with Mixpad, included with the purchase of a rack and console, would have more bang for the buck then a cash rebate.

    CRJ
    Oswego, IL

    T112 & iDR48
    Sony F 1.73GHZ I7 8 Core
    Win 7 Pro 500GB HD 8G RAM
    TP-Link WR1043ND & Airport Express

    #33156
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    I think your argument about the mixapp killing surface sales is wrong. There are lots of things you can’t do with the mixapp, you need at least a PC with the editor. The PC with editor could be used standalone, with a MIDI faderbox and whatnot, yet it is free. So what’s the point in your argument?

    No refunds you say, alright. But how would YOU feel if you just bought an app and shortly after that it is available for free?

    #33161
    Profile photo of kentlowt
    kentlowt
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by shuahughes

    You are assuming only one iPad license is required.

    I agree that it depends on wether A&H want to be in the smaller market.


    fyi each ap purchase in the apple store allows you to install on 5 devices last I checked. So you really get 5 aps for the price of one. Of course this does mean all 5 iPads have to use one persons apple ID…

    112T/IDR48/IDR16

    #33163
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    This thread is filled with a lot of people who have forgotten where iLive came from. I purchased a T112 for ~8k and that was amazing. When iLive launched the surfaces cost ~20k + and iDR.

    To ask for a 3k surface is just silly. If you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it. Buy a GLD instead.

    Same with Mixpad. It’s downright cheap.

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #33164
    Profile photo of shuahughes
    shuahughes
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by tk2k

    This thread is filled with a lot of people who have forgotten where iLive came from. I purchased a T112 for ~8k and that was amazing. When iLive launched the surfaces cost ~20k + and iDR.

    To ask for a 3k surface is just silly. If you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it. Buy a GLD instead.

    Same with Mixpad. It’s downright cheap.

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College


    Where it came from is inaccesible to smaller churches and schools.
    Any business which runs based on where it came from is in serious trouble.

    The digital market is changing very fast right now and A&H are perfectly placed to capitalise on it big time….
    iPad app should be a value added service, not a self funding product.
    Every other company I have checked out that are in this market are offering free iPad apps.

    Sadly, one of the churches who was very keen on the iLive system I proposed to them , is now leaning heavily toward an X32…. :(

    It just a part of the puzzle, but honestly which costs more, providing a free app, or missing out on MixRack sales….?

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 53 total)

The forum ‘Archived iLive Discussions’ is closed to new topics and replies.